2007 159 JTD 2.4

[Bugsmasher80]

Hi all,

New here and have never owned an Alfa. 

Currently looking at a 2007 159 JTD 2.4 Diesel with 50,000 km on the clock.  Any advice or suggestions on this model regarding pro's, con's,  opinions or experiences would be greatly appreciated.

I'm interested in a diesel as I'm looking for a fuel economy, however I've heard these are pretty thirsty.  True?

Any info is greatly appreciated!

Thanks.

[colcol]

The 2.4 JTD 5 cylinder is an absolute ripper, 400 newton metres of torque, the engine is made within the Alfa family, not a bought in one like the petrol engines, the cam belt has a long period before changing it, thre diesel is not so suited to city driving as this clogs it up, and you will get a light come up on the dashboard, this is the filter for the engine, and you will need to take it for a drive on the freeway so that the filter can clean itself, this filter is called the Particle filter, if you ignore the warning light and keep driving it then, the engine will go into limp mode, and it wil back to the dealers for a clean up, which could be expensive, also the engine oil has a sensor to tell you when to change your oil, it senses the rubbish floating around in the oil, the 159's have proved quite good, as if you make a poorly built car these days you go broke, as there are many good cars out there, also run the car on PREMIUM diesel fuel as it is cleaner and the engine will be quieter and not clogg the injectors, not every service station has the premium diesel, have it looked over by an Alfa Romeo Dealer or Alfa Romeo service provider, look on this website or look in the Alfa Club Magazine, don't go to a motoring organisation like the RACV as they are only good for mainstream cars, Colin.

[Bugsmasher80]

Thanks Colin, much appreciated.

Are they thirsty around town?

[colcol]

I don't know what the fuel consumption is like round town, if there are any 2.4 JTD owners out there, tell us as the official fuel figures on the windscreen are not always real world, also the Auto is a good one too, 6 speed Aisan, made in Japan, used by everyone, Colin.

[oz3litre]

We recently bought a 2008 TI Sportwagon with the 2.4 JTDM and it is a fabulous thing. It is currently doing 10litres/100km in the city. The engine has tons of grunt and has a nice growl to it. The car is an absolute stunner to look at and a joy to drive. As colcol says, the 6 speed auto is a lovely gearbox. It has normal, sport and winter modes, along with manual shifting with the stick, or paddles, which work beautifully. It is a proper torque converter auto and doesn't have the stupid self programming thing others do. Like all Alfas you just want to get in and drive it anywhere, because it is so rewarding, and you can't resist looking at it as you leave or approach it. My wife loves it. What more can I say?

[Bugsmasher80]

Thanks guys,

This info is very encouraging.  Test drive is planned for next week.

Are there many performance parts available for them?

[oz3litre]

Are there many performance parts available for them?

In the UK there are people who will remap the computer for more power and who will disable the particulate filter system for more economy, but there is no-one here doing it yet as far as I know. I am sure that you will be impressed with the power these engines have. If you get a TI model you will get fancier seats, lowered sports suspension, body kit, 19" wheels and bigger, red painted Brembo brakes with ventilated ones on the rear. I forgot to mention before that the autos have a Q2 diff as well.

This UK forum is very good for info about 159s and other current models. The guys on there love 159s.
http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/

[Evan Bottcher]

We have a 2006 2.4 JTDm (edit: 6-speed manual) (the m is significant btw - different injection system I think).  Ours has done about 115,000km.  Beautifully put together, nothing really falls off the thing or has shown itself as a major weak point.

The diesel engine is pretty amazing - gobs of torque and easy to drive.  Amazing for overtaking at 100kmh.  We do quite a few freeway kms, so our city/country cycle we get somewhere around 8-8.5L/100km.  I'd say under 10L/100km around the city but it's been a while since I've looked.  The best I ever saw was average 6.6L/100km for the almost 1000km to the Clare Valley.  It's a big heavy car, so I reckon those numbers are pretty good.

Problems:

1. The EGR valve is getting sooted up, which I think then keeps it open and throws lots of soot into the inlet manifold, which then affects the operation of the swirl valves, which then throws an engine warning and puts it into limp mode until restarted.  It also robs power, and causes a stumble under partial throttle (that's what I've noticed myself, seems to match descriptions out there).  We've had the EGR and the accessible parts of the inlet manifold cleaned a couple of times - now this doesn't seem to have worked the last time so I have a new EGR valve on it's way from the UK (damn slow xmas airmail).  This EGR problem is very commonly reported on the UK forums, and also with lots of other makes here and in the UK (so not a bloody Alfa problem).  There is a solution which is to blank it off, but then you need to have your ECU updated to avoid a constant engine warning light.

2.  Injectors have a limited lifetime - these injectors seem to have very very fine tolerances, and we found that three of ours were leaking, causing very rough starting especially when cold.  Two were quite poor.  At over $800 each new, I decided to get reconditioned ones out of the UK (http://www.dieseljones.co.uk/) which seems to have gotten things back to smooth running (apart from the aforementioned EGR valve).

3.  The cruise control stopped working.  Turns out to be the brake pedal switch - replaced for $18 + postage (http://shop4parts.co.uk/ or http://www.alfaworkshop.co.uk/).  The switch has two circuits - one that lights the lights, and the other input to the ECU.  Apparently another common fault on many makes.

4.  I think the dampers could be improved - it seems under-damped and dives heavily on bumps on the rough country roads we drive a lot of.  It's not hard to live with at all, but could be improved.  I've priced a set of Koni dampers and will consider this at some stage.

So overall I'm annoyed by the diesel problems, although those have only really affected it once it was over 90,000km and I think they are surmountable.  Otherwise it's been a pleasure - it looks magic, it's not as 'interesting' to drive as my other Alfas but very pleasant and competent.  The A/C and ventilation works brilliantly even on the hottest days.  The leather seats are very very comfortable (much better than the 156).

Hope this helps!

cheers,
Evan.

[Bugsmasher80]

Thanks Evan,

Brilliant info!

[oz3litre]

Evan, have you tried one of these partial EGR blanking plates? The UK guys reckon they improve economy and keep the oil cleaner without affecting the ECU. I believe Alfa now supply a similar one. I plan to have a look at ours and see if it has had one fitted. I might just buy one of these anyway. They are pretty cheap.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/130740467090?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_706wt_1156

The suspension on the TI like ours is stiffer, so we don't get the diving on bumpy roads. The car feels nice and tight, which is the way I like my cars to be.

Our wagon did 8.8l/100km on the trip back from Melbourne. I had the auto in sport mode all the time, which probably would have increased consumption a bit. It is also a bit heavier than the sedan, so it may do a bit less than the sedan around town.

[Evan Bottcher]

Evan, have you tried one of these partial EGR blanking plates?

Interesting that ebay listing only lists the JTD engines in the 147/156 and then only the 1.9 in the 159, not the 159 2.4 JTDm.  I believe there is a difference in the EGR valve between the JTD and JTDm.  We've got the revised Alfa gasket fitted - it provides some restriction, I think it looks the same as on this page:
http://www.alfaworkshop.co.uk/parts/Alfa_EGR_valve.shtml

I was talking to the chaps at http://www.alfatunemotorsport.co.uk/ - they can supply software and an OBD cable to allow re-flash of the ECU.  The software registers itself to your car, so you need to buy it all again to do another car.  They can do a re-map (claiming +40 odd additional torques and better economy), EGR delete (programs the computer never to open the EGR is my understanding), and also a DPF delete.  They supply a replacement bit of straight pipe for the DPF.  Of course I'd never do this, because a) it's illegal, and b) I'm married to a petrolhead who is also an environmentalist (go figure!).  Would consider just the map + EGR delete - for a bit more pulling power and reliability.  The DPF isn't really a problem for us - we do enough country miles that it never fails to regenerate. 

Hope this is still interesting to the OP - some of these cars are getting to high mileage and so typical Alfa owners are looking for ways to keep them going at a reasonable cost.  The independent garages start to see more of these cars and the usual problems and are able to find the solutions which are cost-effective.  I watched this happen with the 156s and particularly the troublesome Selespeed system - when we first had ours the independents didn't have the computer equipment or expertise, now all the reputable specialists (see club sponsor page) are very familiar with the systems and failure modes, and can repair/replace individual components without having to replace whole very expensive assemblies like the dealers would recommend early on.

[oz3litre]

There is also this gasket which fits on one of the pipes. I have asked the guys on Alfaowners which one works best and will let you know what they say. Do you think the Alfa gasket made any difference on yours?

[Bugsmasher80]

Thanks for all the responses everyone.

Definitely a wealth of knowledge here.

If you had to choose between a 2007 159 JTDm and a 2007 159 JTS TI, both with approx 50,000km though the JTS TI costing a few grand more, which would you choose and why?

What do you think a fair price would be through a dealer for both these cars?

Sorry for all the questions!

[oz3litre]

Thanks for all the responses everyone.

Definitely a wealth of knowledge here.

If you had to choose between a 2007 159 JTDm and a 2007 159 JTS TI, both with approx 50,000km though the JTS TI costing a few grand more, which would you choose and why?

What do you think a fair price would be through a dealer for both these cars?

Sorry for all the questions!

No problem, that is what the forum is for. I would definitely go for the diesel. According to what I have read, the JTS is a bit under powered for the weight of the car and thirsty around town as a result. It is basically a GM unit, whereas the JTDM is a Fiat engine. I am sold on the 2.4 JTDM now that I own one. I didn't think I would like diesels after years of petrol engines, but this one is an impressive unit. Even my mechanic brother who owns a '67 Mustang and '68 Monaro among other older cars, was impressed when he drove the 159 on Christmas day. He was surprised at the power and acceleration and said he would love to get it out on the open road. I still love my 75 Potenziata 3 litre V6 as well. How much are they asking for the cars?

[Bugsmasher80]

Thanks mate.

Approx 20K for the JTD and 24K for the JTS. 

Fair price?