Advice on engine running without (air flow?) part?

[mikeyd313]

Hi guys, my beloved 91 Alfa Romeo 16v 33 Boxer 'Lucci' was taken in to be serviced a year or so back back with an issue whereby she was stalling out / running rough at idle. After much searching my mechanic traced it to something to do with the the air flow meter which they apparently adjusted and she then ran smoothly again at idle and on power. About 2 months ago the problem reappeared, the same mechanic traced it to again something to do with the unit that adjusts the air /petrol ration (apologies for my lack of tech knowledge), he since removed the unit completely with the proviso that if i had any future problems to then consider a replacement part. I've attached the images of the space in the engine bay where the part formerly resided which he informed me was 'beyond repair' and i have been running the car without for 2 months. The car immediately drove smoother and sounded better without it but i have noticed that it revs higher than it should at idol (wasting petrol) and am concerned about the long term effects of the running the car without it - is it likely to cause serious damage/ hastening of Lucci's untimely demise?

I would appreciate any help regarding a) what are the possible implications of further use without it b) any ideas where i can source a new / refurbished part.

Any help much appreciated! As a side note - if anyone is looking for a relatively tidy 33 Boxer (cloverleaf) in gunmetal grey, send me a line! Love it to go to someone who has the Alfa fever

Mike

[colcol]

If the airflow meter wasn't needed in the first place, then Alfa wouldn't have fitted one, ask your mechanic if they can get a good second hand Air Flow Meter, [AFM], with a warranty, personally i would buy a new one, but seeing you are selling the car, try a second hand one, to keep it going, there are a few people wrecking 16 valvers on ebay, see what they want for one, the 33, 16 valve AFM interchanges with a few other cars as well, so get a price on a new generic AFM, Colin.

[Sheldon McIntosh]

The AFM looks to be still present and correct, and plugged in.

I'm no mechanic, but that is obviously some sort of valve/actuator that uses vacuum to actuate, probably to do with emissions, or to affect idle or butterfly position.  Your mechanic has just unplugged it.

Edit...  I was so intrigued that I did a google search, and found that it's your idle control valve.  The most common problem is that they can get clogged (clean thoroughly with carby cleaner) or that there can be a vacuum leak somewhere (change the hose that is leaking).

I hope your mechanic didn't charge you for his frankly ridiculous "fix", or at least handed you back the lead he took off.

[Sheldon McIntosh]

As an addendum, here are the sites I looked at to work out your problem (although saying that, I'm still only guessing)....

http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-33-sud-and-sprint/189424-revs-not-dropping.html

http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-33-sud-and-sprint/155432-idle-control-valve.html

And here is a site with links to download the manual for your car.  I downloaded the manual, had a quick look, and that does indeed seem to be the issue.    http://alfaromeo33.extra.hu/

And this is exactly why Alfas have a reputation for unreliability imho.  People who don't know the cars (fair enough, not everyone is mechanically minded), take them to mechanics who have never seen them before, and get told by their mechanics that the car is hopeless.  This is why you need to take an Alfa to an Alfa specialist, they would have fixed the problem in under an hour.

I'll give you $500 as-is......

[colcol]

I am glad someone is paying attention, well spotted Sheldon, i hear so many stories like this of people working on Alfa Romeo's, not knowing what they are doing, and just rubbishing the car, have a look at this sites service providers for someone to take your 33 to, they work on these cars all the time, and pretty much know these cars backwards, they are quite reliable IF you look after them, my 33 last broke down about 14 years ago, if you listen to some people they break down at least once a week, Colin.

[Sheldon McIntosh]

they are quite reliable IF you look after them, my 33 last broke down about 14 years ago, if you listen to some people they break down at least once a week, Colin.

Couldn't agree more.  I was getting into my 90 at the airport last week, when someone who'd just pulled up in a WRX came over and said "Gee, don't see many of these any more, do they break down often?"  I was tempted to say 'almost definitely less often than a WRX', but didn't, and settled on "well... there are known weak points, but if you maintain them properly they are very reliable".  I did add "I have had Alfas which have broken down", to which she said "was it a Giulia Super?".  "Pfft", said I, "they're even more reliable than these!  Just don't get a 156".

[mikeyd313]

Thanks for your help guys - i think the lesson learned here is i should be going to an Alfa specialist to service my Alfa... My bad for thinking it was a car (no pun intended...)

RE $500 offer Sheldon - i just sold my mountain bike for $570 on ebay, i hope to god an in good running condition 33 is worth more than that... Time will tell!

Happy NY! Keep the passion
Mike

[GTVeloce]

Check out this page. It is based around the early Motronic in a BMW 5 series but the principles are the same. If you scroll down to step 10, you can see how to measure the device with a multimeter to see if it is working correctly or not. It also explains many other things that are quite useful. I think I learnt more from this article regarding EFI systems than anywhere else.

http://www.hiperformancestore.com/Motronic.htm

[Sheldon McIntosh]

Damn, that is a great article, I learned quite a lot as well.  Have a hankering for a 535i now too....

[Mick A]

RE $500 offer Sheldon - i just sold my mountain bike for $570 on ebay, i hope to god an in good running condition 33 is worth more than that... Time will tell!

Haha, probably not.

[aggie57]

Damn, that is a great article, I learned quite a lot as well.  Have a hankering for a 535i now too....

+1!

[mikeyd313]

Think i've learned more about my 33 in the last 5 days than i have in the last 5 years - thanks Alfa peeps!

[colcol]

Worth joining the Alfa club so you can come along and do some events and meet some like minded people, next event January the 9th, Barbeque on the Yarra and driver training day at Winton in the middle of February, Colin.

[deemac66]

The reason your 33 idles faster now is your mechanic has sped the engine up to compensate for the Idle Speed Control valve being disconnected. The ISC Valve is used to increase the idle speed when cold to help prevent stalling due to fuel condensing on the inside of the inlet ports when cold. Later Mo-Tronic systems also used them to increase the idle speed when the air-con is switched on. So don't slow the idle speed or it may stall cold