Thoughts please on buying a 156 JTS Sports wagon

[massiveluvbuddy67]

Hello assembled experts,
I seek your wise advice and guidance. I am thinking of buying a manual 2004 156 JTS Sports wagon with 130k kms for abiuyt $11k. The main reason is to have a manual car to teach my sons how to drive. It will be my weekend car as I am selling my daily driver Lexus. I will have it checked out by one of our club mechanics first.

Thoughts on this model? I would like a Sportswagon as we can put the dog in too when we go away etc.

Thanks
Phil

[colcol]

Have it checked out by one of our club service providers is the first thing to do, 130,000 klms is a critical point for a 156 JTS, it will most likely need the following, FOUR new Lambda sensors, maybe a new cat if the old one is rattling, new clutch and slave cylinder, upper control arms and ball joints, [combined unit], anti roll bar and bushes and rose joint links, the subframe has to come out to do this, [have it done with the clutch], check the lower control arms as well, have the rear suspension bushes checked for wear, these can cause the tyres to scrub out, drive the car on a hot day, to see if the aircon is adequate, as the aircon vents are quite small, and you have more area to cool with a wagon, make sure the 3 chrome dials on the climate control are tight and not freewheeling if the are worn, you should feel the dial go click, if it turns easy it is due for replacement, it is made by DELPHI that was part of General Motors, they are available off ebay, look to see if there are any airbag lights on as they have 8 airbags and sometimes they show a fault, the cam belt has to be changed every 3 years or 50,000klms, thats between $800 - $1200 depending on who you go to, the oil is 10-60 fully synthetic racing oil, in the JTS they went from 10-40 to 10-60 to try and cut down oil consumption and due to direct injection the ring design allows a bit more oil past and uses a bit more oil, [but not as bad as Audi-Volkswagon], the oil can become contaminated with petrol and accellerate engine wear, the JTS;s have been known to wear out cams quickly due to contaminated oil, oil changes MUST be done on time, will think of a few more things to look at, Colin.

[aggie57]

Have it checked out by one of our club service providers is the first thing to do, 130,000 klms is a critical point for a 156 JTS, it will most likely need the following, FOUR new Lambda sensors, maybe a new cat if the old one is rattling, new clutch and slave cylinder, upper control arms and ball joints, [combined unit], anti roll bar and bushes and rose joint links, the subframe has to come out to do this, [have it done with the clutch], check the lower control arms as well, have the rear suspension bushes checked for wear, these can cause the tyres to scrub out, drive the car on a hot day, to see if the aircon is adequate, as the aircon vents are quite small, and you have more area to cool with a wagon, make sure the 3 chrome dials on the climate control are tight and not freewheeling if the are worn, you should feel the dial go click, if it turns easy it is due for replacement, it is made by DELPHI that was part of General Motors, they are available off ebay, look to see if there are any airbag lights on as they have 8 airbags and sometimes they show a fault, the cam belt has to be changed every 3 years or 50,000klms, thats between $800 - $1200 depending on who you go to, the oil is 10-60 fully synthetic racing oil, in the JTS they went from 10-40 to 10-60 to try and cut down oil consumption and due to direct injection the ring design allows a bit more oil past and uses a bit more oil, [but not as bad as Audi-Volkswagon], the oil can become contaminated with petrol and accellerate engine wear, the JTS;s have been known to wear out cams quickly due to contaminated oil, oil changes MUST be done on time, will think of a few more things to look at, Colin.

Sentence of the year contest is done and dusted already!  Some great advice too

[Davidm1600]

Hi Phil

As an owner of a '03 JTS Sportwagon for the past 5 years now, I can confirm that they are a perfectly fine car.  I bought mine with 89,000 on the clock and it now has around 122,000km on the clock, and the previous owner must have owned a dog as there was some evidence of residual dog hair when I bought it.

As per what Col advised I would mostly agree with his comments, however, speaking from my own experience, I have had to progressively replace the four lambda sensors, I am currently waiting for my mechanic to come back from hols so the last one can be done, as I am experiencing some minor issues surrounding the engine management system failure (a typical problem with these cars I believe). 

I have previously had the belts done at 118,000 inc water pump, actuators, etc and yes it cost around me around the $800 mark.  I bought all the parts in from EB Spares as they are cheaper than locally and that includes shipping (which is fast).   I have also replaced the thermostat, put a new set of tyres on it (Pirelli P700 ?), have replaced the top front wishbones, and need to do the lower front, plus new swaybar bushes, and drop links, as I have some minor clunking/squeaking.  Apart from that a new set of 4 Bilstein B4 shocks (at about $400 in total for the four of them from EB), and just prior to christmas a decent new battery.

Apart from that, that is all I have had to have done as everything works perfectly, except for normal servicing.

The aircon in my car is fine for Hobart, and seemed perfectly fine coping with the drive down from Sydney, via Melbourne to Tas when I bought it.  At times if anything it was almost too cold for me , and I love the cold more than heat !!

I don't believe I need to replace the Cat at this stage as there are no rattles, and the engine sounds perfectly normal. 

I have read all the issues in the past re cam issues, sensor light failures, rear suspension issues, but my car doesn't have any of these problems.  My car is a two owner car (I am the second owner), and it was always properly serviced by an Alfa dealer in NSW prior to my purchase.  I think this is certainly a helpful factor. 

It is economical, comfortable, the space in the rear is immense (for a car of its size) when the rear seat is folded down, so overall I am both impressed and happy with it.  I have tried the 159 and had wondered if a 159 sportwagon might be the logical replacement for it one day, but so far I am not convinced I need to go there, and fundamentally I actually enjoy driving my 156 more than I enjoyed the drive in the 159.  Perhaps I didn't drive that car far enough, it is just that it felt somewhat bland in comparison (it was though a diesel auto).  Mine is manual and I prefer that.

[colcol]

Thermostats!, JTS;s like twin sparks eat thermostats, i am on to no 4 the car should take about 4 klms to warm up, the temperature should get to 90c and stay there, the thermostats are about $150 each locally, never tried the UK, plus fitting, about an hours work?, the brakes don't show any dramas, apart from all the brake dust, i have tried genuine and non genuine Magnetti Marelli, same dust, the steering, wheels and suspension are quite solid, hit a bump or small pothole and they don't need a wheel alignment, the fuel usage is sensational, the best i have ever got was 827 klms on a 63 litre fuel tank, i know cause i run out after the light saying low fuel flashed for a day, like all new front wheel drives, the wheel bearings are easily replaced, as an assembly, as opposed to Suds and 33's where you need a million special tools on the 156 they become rumbly about 160,000?, depending on what sort of life they have had, every 2nd cam belt change the water pump should be replaced, these are cheap enough and while they are doing the cambelt, its all there open to change, do it on its own would be about $500 for labor, Colin.

[AndrewM]

Hi. I have exactly the car you describe. Good idea going for a manual (Just too many horror stories regarding Selespeed, although I know there are many happy owners). I've had the car for about 18 months. It's a low km car, just ticked over 75,000.

After sorting out a problem with a faulty earth strap from the battery (something which needs to be upgraded from standard it seems), have had a near perfect run. Had to replace one coil pack, but that's not expensive. I still need to fix the cruise control which does not work. Changed the cam belt and water pump after a 3 year period. (Despite low mileage since the last one, this is a non-negotiable). Mauceri Motors did it, and although I can't remember exactly, I wasn't shocked by the cost (cheaper than doing it on my Mitsubishi).

Not much to add to the excellent advice above. I have found the air con. to be more than adequate, although my car has aftermarket tinted windows. A rattly tailgate took a bit trial and error to fix. The car definitely needs a bit more TLC than your average Aussie car, but does reward you with a very satisfying and rewarding ownership experience. The Sportswagon, for me, is a great combination of sportiness and practical.

[colcol]

The coil packs sometime fail, as it is a Bosch part, they also fail on German cars as well, locally a new coilpack is about $400, much cheaper from the UK, i purchased 4 second hand ones off ebay, someone was wrecking a JTS, .......still waiting for mine to fail, car has a good safety pack 4 airbags and head side curtains as well and stability control and emergency brake assist, Andrew, make sure your brake switch hasn't failed, these can stick on or off and cause the cruise not to work, if you have tinted windows and park in the shade, the airconditioner is fine and the car doesn't overheat in traffic, [take that 33 drivers!], air cleaners are time consuming to change, it always seems to take about half an hour to change, but they only have to be changed every 50,000klms, and sometimes due to lack of usage, the screws holding the air cleaner assembly seize up and have to be drilled out,the labor cost can be as much as it is for the aircleaner element, to do an oil change you have to jack the car up and remove the undertray, about a million screws to undo and do up, adds to the cost of servicing, Colin.

[Gary Pearce]

A manual to teach your sons to drive, big hatch area for the dog....................you already have the perfect solution.

[massiveluvbuddy67]

Can't teach an L plater in  V12 though! What a stupid law. 

[massiveluvbuddy67]

Have it checked out by one of our club service providers is the first thing to do, 130,000 klms is a critical point for a 156 JTS, it will most likely need the following, FOUR new Lambda sensors, maybe a new cat if the old one is rattling, new clutch and slave cylinder, upper control arms and ball joints, [combined unit], anti roll bar and bushes and rose joint links, the subframe has to come out to do this, [have it done with the clutch], check the lower control arms as well, have the rear suspension bushes checked for wear, these can cause the tyres to scrub out, drive the car on a hot day, to see if the aircon is adequate, as the aircon vents are quite small, and you have more area to cool with a wagon, make sure the 3 chrome dials on the climate control are tight and not freewheeling if the are worn, you should feel the dial go click, if it turns easy it is due for replacement, it is made by DELPHI that was part of General Motors, they are available off ebay, look to see if there are any airbag lights on as they have 8 airbags and sometimes they show a fault, the cam belt has to be changed every 3 years or 50,000klms, thats between $800 - $1200 depending on who you go to, the oil is 10-60 fully synthetic racing oil, in the JTS they went from 10-40 to 10-60 to try and cut down oil consumption and due to direct injection the ring design allows a bit more oil past and uses a bit more oil, [but not as bad as Audi-Volkswagon], the oil can become contaminated with petrol and accellerate engine wear, the JTS;s have been known to wear out cams quickly due to contaminated oil, oil changes MUST be done on time, will think of a few more things to look at, Colin.

Thank you Colin for the erudite response. I am scared now! I think I wll get a Mazda 3. 

[massiveluvbuddy67]

Thermostats!, JTS;s like twin sparks eat thermostats, i am on to no 4 the car should take about 4 klms to warm up, the temperature should get to 90c and stay there, the thermostats are about $150 each locally, never tried the UK, plus fitting, about an hours work?, the brakes don't show any dramas, apart from all the brake dust, i have tried genuine and non genuine Magnetti Marelli, same dust, the steering, wheels and suspension are quite solid, hit a bump or small pothole and they don't need a wheel alignment, the fuel usage is sensational, the best i have ever got was 827 klms on a 63 litre fuel tank, i know cause i run out after the light saying low fuel flashed for a day, like all new front wheel drives, the wheel bearings are easily replaced, as an assembly, as opposed to Suds and 33's where you need a million special tools on the 156 they become rumbly about 160,000?, depending on what sort of life they have had, every 2nd cam belt change the water pump should be replaced, these are cheap enough and while they are doing the cambelt, its all there open to change, do it on its own would be about $500 for labor, Colin.

Is there anything that does not need replacing? 

[colcol]

Getting rid of a Toyota Lexus is always a good thing, out with the whitegoods and in with something interesting, what sort of dog do you have?, must be a big one to need a wagon, told you the things that go wrong, not everything goes wrong, some parts just wear out, up to you if you put up with it or fix it, but the good thing is NO RUST ISSUES, Colin.

[Neil Choi]

Can't teach an L plater in  V12 though! What a stupid law. 

Sure about that?  You can teach in anything.

It is P's that can't drive V8's and above and turbo's. 

So can't drive a Montreal or Giulietta QV or Saab 9-3 Viggen but can drive 156 GTA which has much more power.

P's can also drive a Honda S2000.