Not so Hot Brands

[colcol]

The Age's motoring liftout Drive had a feature on Hot brands and Not so Hot Brands,
'Alfa Romeo - The sexy Italian barely registed with new car buyers last year,selling less than 1,000 cars. And things are not likely to change, as it has no new models in 2013'.
And for all the new cars for 2013, 'Alfa Romeo - We will have to wait until 2014 to see the hotly awaited 4C Coupe, but there could be new prices and variants for the Mito and Guilietta', reprinted from Drive, Colin.

[Paul Newby]

According to the latest Wheels there will be a revised Giullietta in the second half of the year which will include a wagon. To quote the mag; "Engines and transmissions will be the same as in the hatch. Poor ride and handling also carry over." Will we get this in 2013 or have to wait until 2014?

You would think things have to be better for the brand in Australia now that distribution is inhouse and prices are sharper than in the Ateco days.

Still is is a long wait for the much anticipated 4C and the vitally important 159 replacement the Giulia.

The days when Alfa Romeo was one of the most popular European brands in the country - in 1985 they sold 2,500 cars in a much smaller market (about line-ball with BMW and greater than Audi) - seem a long time ago....

[John Hanslow]

Good if they had a 2 door giulietta as well.

Strange how some reviewers continue to make negative comments.

Not sure who it was Top Gear Aust or Drive etc but the Giulietta QV got 9 out of 10 so that's ok for me.

[Sheldon McIntosh]

Strange how some reviewers continue to make negative comments.

Not sure who it was Top Gear Aust or Drive etc but the Giulietta QV got 9 out of 10 so that's ok for me.

Why is that strange?  I've met journos from Motor, Wheels and Unique Cars, and they are all extreme enthusiasts, are all extremely good drivers, and all get to drive a huge variety of new cars every day.  I would listen to their opinion any day.  I would also like to form my own opinion, of course, but I find that their opinion is generally a fairly good idea of what a car will be like. 

It's only my opinion, but I consider TGA and Drive to be less professional than the others.  Like comparing part-timers to full-timers.

Mercy sakes, is that the same Wheels mag that gave the Layland P76 the car of the year in 1973?

What's the problem with that?  The P76 was better than the opposition at the time, and more advanced.  Sales were bad due to production difficulties, and the oil crisis; not the fault of the car.  Don't let what uninformed people said about the car, after the fact, affect your opinion.  Also, Wheels may have a different staff now from 1973.  Much like Alfa....

The car mags and papers do some good work, but seriously when it comes to new car reviews they stink, no matter what the brand.

All I'm gonna say here is that I disagree with your opinion.

[colcol]

There is nothing wrong with the current Alfa range, its just that the goodwill they built up with 2 litre Guillia's, Berlina's, Alfetta's Guillietta's, 75's, 156's and 159's has now been wasted, due to not replaceing the 159, they should have kept it in production until its replacement was ready, another massive stuff up by FIAT.
The Leyland P76 was the Wheels Car of The Year in 1973, lets look at it, overhead cam straigh 6 motor, 1987 before Holden and Ford got their OHC, Rack and pinion steering, Holden got it in 1978, Ford in 1987, all Alloy V-8, Holden got a alloy block in the V8 in 2000, the alloy block was the basis for the Repco Brabham Formula 1 motor, that was similar to the Rover V8, the quality glitches that affected the P76 wasn't so apparant when wheels road tested it, but poor old Leyland Australia, like Alfa Romeo had no money and had to do every thing on a shoestring budget, Colin.

[dehne]

There was a review on the new guiletta in the bendigo advertiser on the weekend and they gave it a good review, although the reviewer has a new fiat 500,
was a full page ad and read pretty well.

[Sheldon McIntosh]

I was a little bored, yes.  You know I like to stir it up a bit too.  And it would be boring if we all agreed on the same thing.

Next time you are talking to some motoring writers ask them when was the last time they picked out the actual car to be tested.  Sadly this never happens and more often the so called "Press Car" is nowhere near the actual production car.  Anything from completely different tyre spec to a seam welded body.

That's simply not true.  It used to happen in the good old days, but it just doesn't anymore.  These days you could never get away with doing that, information is spread far too quickly.  Actually, I'll append that statement by saying that Ferrari still seems to do this, and they've been caught out more than once too. 

I recommend you read this....  http://jalopnik.com/5760248/how-ferrari-spins   The author is one of the most respected journos around, and is renowned for his 'no-bullshit' style of reporting.  If he's unafraid to dish the dirt on Ferrari, at the expense of never driving one of their press cars again (and he actually recently bought his own Ferrari), don't you think he'd also be unafraid to let the cat out of the bag if anyone else was doing it? Seriously, if any other manufacturer was caught doing this it would be all over the press.  And they would be caught pretty quickly if they were doing it.

As for the pros and part-timers thing, come on Sheldon the Australian motoring public are not that stupid. 

Maybe not stupid.  How's 'willfully ignorant'? 

[Ads]

Hey Paul,

Being a motoring writer, I have to agree with Sheldon here. There are a few exceptions, like in anything, but he is spot on when he says that many of us live and breathe for cars and independent, honest assessment of them. Sure, it may cut you off the next launch list, but really most of us would just rather drive the cars than sit through a presentation!

I can't deny that there are some (generally not in the specialist motoring side of things) that enjoy the free food and accomodation the manufacturers lay on at a launch, and are consequently loathe to criticise them in their copy, but it's very easy to weed them out when you read their review.

As a side note, I've heard of some companies actually saying they don't need the press to sell their cars. How often do you see a new review on a Ferrari in Australia? Others want to put their hand into a comparison and suggest that their car isn't really a direct competitor to the others. But, I'm getting off track here. Your theory that a favourable review is worth millions to them (particularly in Oz) isn't really true. Sure, every sale helps, but 'literally millions' is overstating it a bit

In terms of picking out the cars, you are correct, we don't get to walk into the garage and say 'I'll have that one.' I can't say I've experienced a press car that has performed abnormally well when compared to its vital stats (or, indeed, a privately owned example when I've had the chance to compare), and they would be silly in this day and age to try and do that; the backlash from purchasers would be too great as this kind of stuff spreads like wildfire. These cars are well maintained, but driven very hard in general so they lead a tough life! 'Nowhere near the actual production car' is again an overstatement.

Having been both part and now full-time in the industry, I can tell you that my assessment process hasn't really changed, except that I have more experience to draw on. Now I can say that 'X car has a better ride than Y car', for example. 'Professionals' get to sample pretty much every car in every class, so can make a subjective assessment based on that experience of other cars in the class.

Enjoy your day.

[Beatle]

.............. its just that the goodwill they built up with 2 litre Guillia's, Berlina's, Alfetta's Guillietta's, 75's, 156's and 159's has now been wasted,

Colin, I was alive in the seventies and eighties, but I don't recall too much 'goodwill' from the general car-buying public toward Alfa Romeo cars..............

[colcol]

Paul, what i meant by that was that Alfa Romeo had good 2 litre cars going back 45 years, and do they continue the line, no just stop making the 159 while FIAT takes over the Pomigliarno De Arco plant and builds their own cars, what are 156 and 159 drivers going to buy?, MiTo's and Guilietta's,, great cars as they are, they are not medium family cars and no Station Wagon, Colin.

[oz3litre]

What's the problem with that?  The P76 was better than the opposition at the time, and more advanced.  Sales were bad due to production difficulties, and the oil crisis; not the fault of the car.  Don't let what uninformed people said about the car, after the fact, affect your opinion.  Also, Wheels may have a different staff now from 1973.  Much like Alfa....

Absolutely correct. On top of the production difficulties, the big three deliberately bought up huge stock of the common parts, like gearboxes, brakes and clutches, making it hard for Leyland to complete orders. They had more orders than they could build. In addition, the big strikes the parent company in the UK were enduring, meant they couldn't float the Australian branch long enough to perfect the P76. I think one more year would have done it. I knew a guy who did his economic thesis on it. I owned three P76s, my Dad two and my brother three, so I know them very well. They were way ahead of the big three in technology, driveability and handling for years. They had a few quality issues, but so did all the others. TC Cortina anyone? I eventually worked out that the P76 V8 engine had a design fault in the water jacket which led to overheating, due to a hot spot around one of the cylinders. With air-conditioning on in very hot weather, they would get to the redline and stay there. Turning the aircon off didn't help once that happened. I had a three row radiator and bigger fan, but it didn't cure it. When I adapted a Commodore water pump to fit, it helped a little, due possibly to better flow. They weren't too bad without aircon. Rover engines barely notice an air conditioner on the hottest of days, in heavy traffic in my experience.

Most of the people who knock P76s have never owned or even driven one. They just like to believe myths, like Alfa knockers do.

As for Alfa, I think the biggest problem is convincing some people that the unreliability myth is just that. Some people actually believe that Dog and Lemon guy.

[colcol]

I know a bit about the Leyland P76, as my first job was making body panels for it, don't think for one minute that the big 3 were even slightly concerned about the latest attempt from Leyland Australia, they were more concerned with the Japanese cars, the Leyland designs for making body panels was about 20 years behind GM, and hows this for typical Leyland stupidy, they beleived their own PR, that the P76 was better than sliced bread, and they made a complete set of body stamping dies, [the most expensive part of car making], and sent them to South Africa, to replicate the success it was here, the [expensive] dies ended up going to Sims metal recyclers, the P76 debarcle could only have been done by Leyland, in the end the Zetland car manufacturing plant was auctioned off for housing, it was the former Victorian Park Racecourse, about 2.5 miles out of central Sydney, as you can imagine it fetched excellent prices and everybody got paid, at least something good came out of it, Colin.

[oz3litre]

I know a bit about the Leyland P76, as my first job was making body panels for it, don't think for one minute that the big 3 were even slightly concerned about the latest attempt from Leyland Australia, they were more concerned with the Japanese cars, the Leyland designs for making body panels was about 20 years behind GM, and hows this for typical Leyland stupidy, they beleived their own PR, that the P76 was better than sliced bread, and they made a complete set of body stamping dies, [the most expensive part of car making], and sent them to South Africa, to replicate the success it was here, the [expensive] dies ended up going to Sims metal recyclers, the P76 debarcle could only have been done by Leyland, in the end the Zetland car manufacturing plant was auctioned off for housing, it was the former Victorian Park Racecourse, about 2.5 miles out of central Sydney, as you can imagine it fetched excellent prices and everybody got paid, at least something good came out of it, Colin.

Whatever you say about the body panels, they were a far better car to drive than any of the big three of the time. I drove all of them at different times. Holden only caught up with the first Commodore, with rack and pinion steering and MacPherson struts and it was basically just an Opel copy. The P76 was all Australian. The only English thing on the whole car was the ignition key. I have stripped one down to nuts and bolts. As I said, the guy I once knew did his thesis on what happened to the P76 and it was a fact that the big three bought up large stocks of parts, according to his research. If they were twenty years behind GM in panel construction that puts them in the 1920s. My father in law was a toolmaker and when he came out here from UK in 1970 he was proudly given a tour of Holden's factory in Elizabeth. He couldn't believe the antiquated pre war machinery and techniques they were using. He hadn't seen anything like it since before the war in England. The P76 had side intrusion bars before the others as far as I know and the bonnet was designed not to go through the windscreen in a crash, or to fly up if the catch came undone. It was a much more modern car.

[colcol]

Don't get me wrong, i thought that the P76 was a good attempt at an Aussie car, its just that the British Leyland managment made too many blues, the remark that Leyland were 20 years behind GM in body panels was made by my 1st boss, who showed me things that GM were doing 20 years ago, and Leyland have only started doing, and when my boss went to the Leyland Auction, he bought nothing as it was all so old and worn out and some of it had come from British Motor Corporation in England and it was pre world war 2, the P76 used to have dents and dings on the side panels from the factory, why i hear you ask?, when the Zetland factory was opened in 1952, they were making the Morris Minor and the production line was built to suit, when they started building the P76 it was much wider, and as it would go down the production line, unless carefully guided, the P76 would bump into the pillars on the production line, it was styled by Italian stylist Micholetti, who was reportedly horrified when he saw what Leyland had done to his original sketches, similar to what Leyland did to Micholetti's original Triumph TR-7, if you make an ugly car thats got crook quality control, no matter how well engineered it is, it won't sell, Colin.

[Sheldon McIntosh]

From Wikipedia, interesting in light of the discussion about panels.

It did offer a combination of features which were advanced in this category in Australia at the time: rack and pinion steering, power-assisted disc brakes, McPherson strut front suspension, front hinged bonnet, glued-in windscreen and concealed windscreen wipers, as well as the familiar Australian-made Borg Warner gearboxes (including 3 speed column shift) and a live rear axle.

Particular attention was paid to structural rigidity, a British Leyland engineering strength. This goal was aided by a conscious effort to reduce the number of panels needed to build the car's body — a remarkably low 215, reportedly only 5 more than for a Mini.[1]