views of competence of GTV V6 mechanic sought...

[darkstar]

hi all

just wanted views on this situation. OK:

- about 1.5 months ago, I took the 98 GTV V6 in for a service - engine had a bad miss, which was due to a hole in the air intake hose (had been taped up in the past, but seems this fix had started to come apart)
- I should point out the mechanic IS an Alfa specialist
- so when I get it back, the miss is fixed (mechanic just taped up the hose again); he also (without me asking) rotated the front and rear wheels (fronts were starting to wear quite a lot, rears were near new). So, fair enough.
- I find that after the wheel rotation, there's a bad vibration through the steering wheel that starts at about 80 km/h
- about 2 weeks later, the engine miss starts happening again
- so a week ago, I take the car back to the mechanic, and explain the above issues. I ask him whether I may have done damage to the engine as I'd been driving it quite a lot whilst the engine was still missing badly - answer: 'probably'. He explains that he'll need to put a new hose on it.
- he also says that the vibration through the wheel would be due to the fact that I need a wheel balance - he also said that the machine he uses for  wheel balancing (whatever you call that) is broken (so it seems that may be why he didn't do the wheel balance last time)
- in a later phone call he says he can't find an air intake hose anywhere to suit my car
- I do a bit of my own research on the web, and I can't find the part either. Though I do find out that you can use a generic silicon hose to do the job (this is the subject of a couple of other forum posts here, actually). So I ring him back and suggest he could get a generic hose to do the job. He says no, he'll need the actual part (he explained a bit about why this was so, but I can't remember exactly what he said)
- a day or so later, I speak to him again on the phone, and he now says he can use a generic hose to do the job.

My questions:

- is it fair to say that if he'd fixed the hose properly the first time, the problem would not have resurfaced, and I would not have done potential damage to my engine?
- he first tells me he can't use a generic part, then he says he can. All the while, he's done no work on a car that I NEED as my daily driver. Shouldn't he have known that he could use a generic part?, then he could have proceeded with the work much earlier, then I might be closer to having my car back (I still don't have it back after 6 days now (which does include the weekend))
- shouldn't he have known that if he was rotating the wheels, there's at least a good chance that the wheels would need balancing? And if his machine wasn't working, should he not have at least told me that I should get the wheels balanced elsewhere? Particularly as I may have done other damage to the car/tyres with the wheels being out of balance.

This guy seems like a nice bloke but I'm feeling like I don't want to take it to him again, but wonder if people here think these things are understandable, or unacceptable, or otherwise?

thanks very much for any views...

[Sheldon McIntosh]

Did you ever get that buckled rear rim replaced?  http://www.alfaclubvic.org.au/forum/index.php?topic=7159.msg42388#msg42388

That could easily be something difficult to feel on the rear, but more noticeable on the front.

I can't see why you would need to balance the tyres after a rotation, the tyres are simply balanced to the particular wheel, not to whether they're front or rear.  Maybe a weight had fallen off a rear wheel previous to the rotation, which would be less noticeable on the rear than front?

[darkstar]

hi,

nah, actually, I never did replace that rim, I got it roadworthied by another mob that didn't question the rim, so I figured the guy that said it was buckled was just being too picky. It actually did occur to me the other day that that might be the issue, but figure I'll get a balance and align and see if the issue goes away (never hurts to get that done anyway)

thanks...

[John Hanslow]

Slight deviation but I have been advised to get the wheels balanced every 12 months.  European /  Italian wheels may have softer metal (as you have to avoid pot holes) as it is easier to buckle a rim that expected

This has to be fixed or replaced  as it has a real effect on the handling of the car. 

[Steve S]

It would appear to me that the mechanic has tried to do the very best for your car, choosing not to fit a generic hose and rotating the tyres when he saw they needed doing so. He hasn't actually done anything wrong; he has only made the mistake of not understanding what you wanted. This is a typical example where good mechanics may appear not so great as they do not communicate well and don't give the customer satisfaction. Enthusiasts at the end of the day don't usually make good businessmen. Good businessmen don't usually make good mechanics.

Sure, fitting a generic hose would have got you on your way but depending on the type of hose in question, I understand why he maybe reluctant to do that. It's not really good practice and I would not automatically offer that option either. The generic hose is more of a last resort and since it has come to that he has probably reluctantly agreed to fit it. The missfire will not have done any damage but it's not ideal. Just like driving it around with a taped up hose is not ideal, but it most likely wont do any damage. 

[Cool Jesus]

I totally agree with Steve. You need to communicate with your mech as I'm sure they would want your return business. It's your money and your favourite ride, if your not satisfied let them know, I'd like to think that they will do their best to make you happy. If not find a garage that will. I'm more concerned that you were happy with the fix all tape being ok, I'm assuming you were probably researching a more permanent fix maybe 

[155 lover]

What type of tyres do you have on the car? If you've got asymmetric tyres on there you cant rotate diagonally....that will almost certainly cause horrible vibration....

Asymmetric tyres should only be rotated front to back on the same side (rear right to front right etc) and not diagonally (rear right to front left).

[Steve S]

What type of tyres do you have on the car? If you've got asymmetric tyres on there you cant rotate diagonally....that will almost certainly cause horrible vibration....

Asymmetric tyres should only be rotated front to back on the same side (rear right to front right etc) and not diagonally (rear right to front left).

Asymetrical tyres can be fitted to any corner. Directional tyres can only be fitted to one side. You can get directional asymetrical too. If you fit tyres the wrong way it wont cause a vibration.

[155 lover]

Maybe I'm talking about directional asymmetric then....either way mine where roated corner to corner and they caused massive vibration until I got it fixed.  It was almost undriveable.

[Steve S]

Maybe I'm talking about directional asymmetric then....either way mine where roated corner to corner and they caused massive vibration until I got it fixed.  It was almost undriveable.

Same issue as the OP. Your rear wheels would have been out of balance, when put on the front you notice it.

[colcol]

If your rim is out of round, not out of balance then no matter where you put it, it going to vibrate, put the bent rim on the back, jack up the car and spin the rim by hand, if you can notice it is not running true then you will have to get it re-rolled, and then the tyre put on and balanced it, the hose which has a hole in it, is it the power brake boost vacumn hose?, if it is you could just go to Repco and get some vacumn hose, like most people would, as i doubt whether Alfa would keep any in stock, as i have never been able to buy any from a dealer, cause its just to easy to go and buy the right size and cut it to length, Colin.

[Mick A]

Colin,

As was mentioned first thing in this thread, he is talking about the air intake hose which runs between the air filter/AFM and the throttle body.

-Mick

[colcol]

Thanks Mick, it was a bit hard to follow, i didn't know you could get generic air intake hoses like that, i would have pushed for a Genuine hose, not a silicone one, as you don't want air leaks upsetting your mixture, thanks for your response, Colin.

[Mick A]

No worries Colin!

[darkstar]

thanks a lot for all the responses; sorry for my lack of updates but life's been getting in the way...

picked up car today (though was actually ready a couple of days ago); I just had a rental car til today, and decided I wouldn't bother returning it early

the tyres currently on the front (ie since the rotation was done) are el cheapos, so I expect are NOT unidirectional or assymetric

after the responses here, have reached conclusion that my mechanic has tried to do the right thing; he really does seem like a genuine, good bloke. Though I have recently read elsewhere that wheels SHOULD be balanced after a rotation.

he's ended up making up a silicon hose to fit, and looks to be a pretty good job. Damage was just over $300, all up, so seems very reasonable.

what I might do is take the thing to another garage, and just tell them about the vibration through the wheel starting at 80 km/h: will tell them that I think it may just need a balance/align, or could be that one of the wheels is buckled, and will leave it to them to diagnose, and fix if possible.