1300/1750 GTV "bitsa"

[Fast Eddie]

Ok, here's a curious debate subject for y'all to chew on -

Let me set the scene -
imagine you are in the market for a 1968 1750 105.  Imagine you are on a VERY tight budget and imagine the intention to keep it as a mildy tuned - PACE cams, extractors, springs - road car (with Momo Vega's or superlites), not a full-on track car or indeed a concours challenger.

imagine you find (for price, within the very tight budget) a 1968 1300 GT Junior with 1750 series 1 grill and 1750 motor BUT still retaining the 1300 GTJ interior (except that 1750 instruments have been jammed in the smaller 1300 dash instrument holes).

Do you  - replace the 1750 grill for a 1300 GTJ version, thus returning it to a 1300 GTJ in the main (but definitely retaining the 1750 motor) or, do you continue morphing it into a 1750 - i.e. change interior to 1750 series 1 spec etc?

What does it become?
Which is the better direction - value wise and avoiding raspberries for the traditionalists?
Does it lose major face and value being a 1750 in a 1300 body or indeed if it is a 1300 GTJ to look at externally and internally but with 1750 donk, (a not to uncommon change i understand).

What about brakes? Do you upgrade to larger 1750 calipers or leave it?

what else?

Genuinely looking forward to some informative replies from those 105 afficianados on this forum.

[Gary Pearce]

Hmmm. Sounds like you have bought something Ed.
I guess you know I stick to originality and I think the 1300 Junior look with just the 1750 engine is the way to go. As you said it is acceptably not uncommon. In fact when you run a bearing you could even go 2 litre? particularly if you are not going group S.
Also I particularly think the 1300 is a bit more 'special Bruce' as there is lots and lots of 1750's. I don't beleive there is a brake size difference either. Also finding good 1750 S1 seats might set you back more than the car cost. Don't forget when you become a rich West Australian like usually happens, you will probabbly want to do a full resto back to factory 1300 spec.
Regards to Bec and have a very very happy Birthday next week.
P.S. are you going to Alfesta?

[AndrewO]

Hi,

If you are talking strict value then there are two ways to go:
Original
Full racer

Of those the best value for money would have to be original since a racer will cost heaps and you are still between categories.  You could always go down the path of GTA replica and that might provide a good return (and lots of fun).

It'll never be a 1750 so why try to make it one unless that's what you really want.

But if it is a car you are going to keep then what's the difference if the grill is 1300, 1750 or 2000?  Make it a car you like to drive and let the next owner worry about matching numbers (which you don't have anyway), unless matching numbers are important to you. 

I am biased because I bought a 1968 series 1 1750 on a very tight budget.  I planned to restore it but restoration would have been too expensive and beyond my ability so I've morphed it into a semi-racer.  My wife said it beautifully the other day when she said I can really enjoy this one now because I can slap some black rustproofing on the internals of the car (which I'm doing now) and not worry about the originality or a perfect finish.  I also enjoy driving it on the track but probably wouldn't get around to weekend cruises so it is being used more. 
The car suits me, make yours suit you and let other people complain while you just smile.

[Fast Eddie]

Regards to Bec and have a very very happy Birthday next week.
P.S. are you going to Alfesta?

thank you!  Sadly, not going to Alfesta Gary, due to extreme lack of funds (he says in the same thread as discussing Alfa ownership), even though we were the first to actually book outside of AROCA QLD.
And no, i havent bought anything yet...

[Scott Farquharson]

Go 1300 Jr but keep the 1750 motor (maybe later put in a a PACE 2L....)

[branko.gt]

....
imagine you find (for price, within the very tight budget) a 1968 1300 GT Junior with 1750 series 1 grill and 1750 motor BUT still retaining the 1300 GTJ interior (except that 1750 instruments have been jammed in the smaller 1300 dash instrument holes).
...

few things are wrong with this picture, 1750 grill does not fit the 68 junior. The two grills have the same basic appearance, single ss bar between the heart and the lights. The heart itself is sometimes replaced with the later version since some people do not like the look of the early hearts.

Having later instruments in the earlier dash would not make for an attractive look, something i would suggest fixing at the first opportunity.

As for the brakes, you would need to change uprights to fit 1750 or 2 liter brakes. It is not unreasonable upgrade, particularly if you are putting a bigger engine. Alternative is to retain uprights and put in gtv6/75 front brakes. Both will work better then the original. however, short of track use the 1300 calipers with decent pads will work fine even with the bigger engine.

it is not simple to make 1750 out of 1968 junior. Junior is step front and 1750 is smooth nose, you would need to transplant the whole front panel.

[Fast Eddie]

Interesting comment re the 1750 grill not being an exact fit with the 1300 body.  I knew you would have something of value to add or i wouldnt have started this thread.  You were one of the main people i was hoping to get a response from.   Further argument to revert it back to 1300 wherever possible (but keeping the 1750 motor).   

I have brushed up on my model specs over some time, so am aware of the physical similarities and differences.
Will reveal all tomorrow as i am going ot take a look at it tonight. Cross fingers.

[Fast Eddie]

well...
it aint a 68 1300GT Junior with 1750 donk...
It is a 71 1300GT Junior with (probably) original 1300 GT Junior motor.

-The interior, whilst out of the car is excellent.  Seats & trim are black and in VG nick.. Seats look like they have been reupholstered and done well.  Roof lining is above average brings overall interior down to an overall 9/10.
-No grill, 4 headlights.
-Wrong speedometer in dash? (miles, not k's), Tacho might be right. 
-Mongrel paint job on the front half of the car, possibly as repair job from accident or panel replacement.
-Rust wise - RHS sill is shot but not holed thru (unless you push your finger into the bubbles )
Rust in gutters behind rear wheels.  A few blemishes in wheel arches etc but nothing overly drastic.  some floor repair work done previously.  Bit rough.
The paint (other than the front half) is reasonable BUT, the car was previously yellow over a original fawn, grey, boney colour.
Tyres shot, original steel wheels.

Summary - needs about $2k on rust and paint BUT it aint my dream 1968 series 1 1750, BUT the price is right and the interior is excellent.

What do i do?  worth spending $2k on the body?
Branko, can i handle the 1300 engine until i can afford to replace it?  Can i up it's performance simply?

Will attach a pic or 2 tomorrow.

[Brad M]

What's your rush? Hold out for the dream car I say.

[Fast Eddie]

no rush other than needing to fuel the need but lack of funds is pushing me into cars that arent my "perfect" preference i.e. 1 1968 something preferably series 1 1750.

   

[branko.gt]

well...
it aint a 68 1300GT Junior with 1750 donk...
It is a 71 1300GT Junior with (probably) original 1300 GT Junior motor.
....
-No grill, 4 headlights.
.....
Summary - needs about $2k on rust and paint BUT it aint my dream 1968 series 1 1750, BUT the price is right and the interior is excellent.

What do i do?  worth spending $2k on the body?
Branko, can i handle the 1300 engine until i can afford to replace it?  Can i up it's performance simply?

......

picture still not ok, 4 headlights was onyl 1.6 junior not 1300 junior. The 4 headlight junior came with 2l grill . It cannot be '71 junior with 4 headlights. Is it possible that it was 2 headlights and converted to 4. Something like Colin did.

what do the rear lights look like?

What you think is 2k body work woudl end up being at least twice as much once the work starts. Any rough work will not be to your liking and you will want to fix that as well, and the price goes up....

in the end you end up with something that you did not want in the first place...

it is not hard to turn it into the 1750 look alike if that is what you want, albeit series2. But if you ask me, there are many advantages to the series two 1750....

as for the engine, i love 1300 but it is horses for courses.

[Fast Eddie]

......

picture still not ok, 4 headlights was onyl 1.6 junior not 1300 junior. The 4 headlight junior came with 2l grill . It cannot be '71 junior with 4 headlights. Is it possible that it was 2 headlights and converted to 4. Something like Colin did.

- Yes the 2nd set of headlights are definitely an add-on at some point.

what do the rear lights look like?
- Square

What you think is 2k body work woudl end up being at least twice as much once the work starts. Any rough work will not be to your liking and you will want to fix that as well, and the price goes up....
- Too true

in the end you end up with something that you did not want in the first place...
- agree. i want a 1968 105 or else i will go back to my 77-79 Alfetta GTV plans.  Just means it'll take longer to fill the pot and to find the right one. (there is a 1967 1750 possibly for sale by the same guy with body work done which will of course be more $)

it is not hard to turn it into the 1750 look alike if that is what you want, albeit series2. But if you ask me, there are many advantages to the series two 1750....
- Dont want to make it what it isnt.  I was happy with the bigger engine if it had been a 68.
as for the engine, i love 1300 but it is horses for courses.
[/quote]

[alfagtv58]

2k does sound very optomistic given your description of rust....

[Fast Eddie]

further ammo to the argument of finding one already done or at least waiting till i find the one i want (1968 = 40 years old like me).
Just means i have to be patient and keep saving my pennies (and selling more grass...i mean artificial turf) til the one i want "pops" up.

I miss this banter.  Thank goodness for the forum.

[Gary Pearce]

The car sounds like it is the new smooth front Junior (like 2000 GTV) either 1300 or 1600. Single head lights and a few other hangover items from the earlier step nose model. No centre console, didn't get carpets and didn't have the new printed circuit dash like the 2000 GTV. Junior's retained the old 1750 style speedo binicle which I happen to think is a real plus over the 2000 GTV. Branko is right these models had a different size caliper mounting stub axle (or upright) which was unique to the 70's 1300 & 1600. The 2000 GTV had the same as the earlier 60's model 1300, 1600, and 1750's cars. Australian delivered cars anyway. This 'special' upright shouldn't be considered a disadvantage as they are quiet valuable because they will accept the alloy calipers. Colin converted one of these 1600 bodies to his 2000 GTV race car.
You may have noticed Paul form Adelaide at Alfesta 2007, with his loverly 1600 Junior.
I happen to like this particular model, not as common as the 2000 GTV and with several better features. I would grab it if I was you even though it is not your dream car. It sounds like it would spruce up reasonably cheaply and would always be easy to sell (even un-restored) with it's good trim, at some later time when economics are different. Who knows you then might be able to retain both?