Reliable alfas

[Alfamania]

Hello Alfisti,

Which Alfas were the unreliable ones?

[Fetta GTV]

The ones that where not looked after

[Darryl]

Hello Alfisti,

Which Alfas were the unreliable ones?

The ones (previously?) owned by people who don't perform regular maintenance.

The ones appearing on current affairs shows that are really reporting on the sometimes atrocious after sales support and customer relations when a customer does experience problems rather than any systemic issue with the product (car) itself.

The ones with novel and mechanically complex technologies when compared to vehicles without those technologies (Selespeed, I'm talking about you).

The ones with engines with many sensors etc and some internal mechanical parts prone to wear out (really, designed to a price and product life). Could just as easily be any other mass produced late model high tech/high volume engine in any car once it starts getting "old", but thinking of JTS here.

Any Alfa mentioned on Top Gear and especially any Alfa ever owned by Jeremy Clarkson (see first point)

Note I don't consider the Selespeed and the JTS to be "lemons", they are just the most likely sources of "I have an Alfa and its always breaking down" reports (that and "my engine just ate itself because I'm too cheap to replace a cam belt").

[Alfamania]

Good opinions 

Generally it seems that every time an Alfa Romeo gets mentioned= not realiable answer. What people dont realise is that every car breaks down regardless of brand make 

[Fetta GTV]

I often get told how unreliable my Alfa is. I just go along with it. I wouldn't want to see how unreliable their car will be when it is 32 years old.
Dont tell anyone they are reliable that way we can still pick them up for a resonable price.
If they had a good reputation I would not be able to afford one

[Darryl]

I read John Connolly's column in the weekend Oz this morning and may have expectorated a certain amount of espresso over my Weetbix. He quotes Alex Hallowell (Shitbox Rally support mechanic) on the 5 worst and 5 best car makes/models for Shitbox rally...

I can't really dispute his list of the most boring hard to kill or at least easy to fix shitboxes but at number 1 in the "avoid at all costs list" is "Anything with an Alfa Romeo badge." Predictable I guess....

If you have an oz subscription/pass you can red it here: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/opinion/rally-squeezes-out-the-lemons/story-e6frg9xf-1226617638591

[Duk]

I only have experience with older Alfa's (my 1980 Giulietta and my 1990 75 Potenziata) and leaving aside the dead syncho's in my old Giulietta, I found the plastic and rubber components of the 2 cars and the electrical systems to be the big failing points.
Things made from plastic or rubber tended to become more brittle than similar parts in other cars of the same age.

Older Alfa Romeo electrical systems seem to be 1 badly executed thought after another. And they were just chucked into the car in a very poor quality way. The lack of relays in the older cars and the LOW quality of the wiring just makes my head spin. 

Oil leaks can be/are pretty common with the older cars. My guess is that it's more of a machining quality problem, because Alfa just use the same seals as every other car manufacturer and some of those can go many, many kilometers without leaks.
Thought Alfa may have also used higher oil flow rates through the main bearings and the oil might not be able to drain  back to the sump quickly enough without building up excess pressure and escaping past the seals. 

[colcol]

And they most likely recomend you drive something Japanese like Toyota, Honda, Nissan or Mazda, because unlike Alfa Romeo's they don't have all the niggling electrical problems like the revered Italian Marque are famous for.
This week i read that these highly reliable Japanese cars are being recalled for faulty airbag systems, that were made about 10 years ago.
A few years ago i looked up a Australian Automotive website for recalls, so that i could take my hopeless unreliable Alfa Romeo back to have all the rectifcation work done, and i was dissapointed to see at that stage, the only Alfa Romeo's recalled were the early 147's for a check of some tyres that were prone to cracking in their old age.
I wonder what the article says about the electrical and transmission problems of Volkswagons and Audi's, Colin.

[Paul Gulliver]

I wonder what the article says about the electrical and transmission problems of Volkswagons and Audi's, Colin.

Going through that at the moment with a 3 yo Golf TSI ( warranty claim ) and I have got to say that VW Aust have been absolutely fantastic. If only those arseholes at Ateco and Alfa Australia could have historically treated selespeed owners like this. Instead of sticking their head in the sand globally.

[LukeC]

Oil leaks can be/are pretty common with the older cars. My guess is that it's more of a machining quality problem

You have guessed incorrectly Because the quality of the machining of the mechanical components of Alfas (as far back as the earliest I have worked on... early 60's) is quite simply superb!

I am originally a fitter and machinist by trade. I purchased my first Alfa when I was working in an engine reconditioning centre back in about 1985. I rebuilt the engine soon after buying it (was a pretty tired 105 GTV 2000). I would bring the parts in and compared them to the absolute shite English, american, Aussie and japanese engine components. The only other euro stuff that came anywhere close was BMW and even then the quality of the aluminium in their heads stank. Mercedes engines back then were low tech and truck like in over-engineering. Even my bogan co-workers begrudgingly agreed.

Some of the sealing methods (in the older engines) are a little old fashioned... but then, these engines are a very old design. Any engine will start leaking eventually. But when you look at Peugeot front and rear main oil seals in an 70's 504: mechanical seals (basically a thread that pusched the oil back into the sump). Now THAT is old fashioned!

[aggie57]

I wonder what the article says about the electrical and transmission problems of Volkswagons and Audi's, Colin.

Going through that at the moment with a 3 yo Golf TSI ( warranty claim ) and I have got to say that VW Aust have been absolutely fantastic. If only those arseholes at Ateco and Alfa Australia could have historically treated selespeed owners like this. Instead of sticking their head in the sand globally.

Can't agree more Paul.  Same experience here with BMW and Vic's X3 .  Nearly 5 years old, 60 something thousand K's, well out of warranty.  Recently it developed a problem internally with the ZF transmission.  Full cover with parts now exceeding well over $10k in value, loan cars, the lot.  No questions asked, no need for me to ask.  Just sorted.

It's not whether things go wrong, because they will, but how they are handled when they do. 

[LukeC]

I think I am going to get on a roll here...

I am about 16 years out of full time spanner twirling (but have never stopped working on Alfas) and have done some of my best Alfa engine work while I was neither professionally in the trade or while owning an Alfa.... ! After two years owning an Alfa again, I have just registered it and am finally a dinkum Alfa Romeo owner again. Now I work in an office environment surrounded for the most part by mechanical engineers and ex-motor mechanics. Every time a mention something about Alfas someone inevitably makes some crack about alfa reliability.... Groan!

Stangely enough, very few of these ex-mechanics has ever actually owned, worked or driven an Alfa... But they all seem to have a pretty firm belief/opinion that they are not reliable. My own experience is that I have driven over 500,000 km in various Alfas and only ever been stranded on the side of the road one time: that was because the car was fitted with a non-genuine fuel pump that had an internal screen that got clogged up.

My theory on the poor mechanical reliability reputation, (not rust, but even so all older cars were more prone to rust) is that these cars were quite sophisticated for their day. A lot of them found their way into the hands of people who did not understand the value of specialist care and therefore were being services at Harry's All Service Motors or whatever. Harry of course did not know much beyond a stromberg carburettor, three speed on the tree box and an agricultural pushrod engine. He would change the oil, filter, plugs and points, maybe have a fiddle with the carbs if was feeling brave and send it out the door. The car eventually would need a more major fix of some sort and harry (being my used to working with cars a little less congested under the bonnet would struggle to do jobs that he could do in less than half the time in a Holden (or whatever). The car would go back to the customer with a bigger bill than it really should have had (cause Harry was not familiar with the car and drew more blood than usual), was not really fixed as well as it should have been (cause Harry was not familiar with the car). Harry would now have the opinion that Alfas were crap to work on and would tell all his mates down the boozer. The owner (who did not take his car to a specialist) would tell his mates how expensive the car was to fix (and it never really ran that well). The car would be less reliable than it should have and therefore winge about all the above....and so on!

Oh: Sunday I pulled the engine out of a two owner 1750 GTV for a freshen-up (sold and spent its entire life in Canberra), never serviced anywhere else but Gulsons and Autotech. While the engine had been rebuilt (with no mods) once before, there is absolutely NO EVIDENCE of corrosion so far on the head or in the block and the crank is standard size. Two years ago, three of us squeezed into it and took it up to Wakefield Park and did probably 80 laps at full bikkie. Never missed a beat or showed any form of stress all day. A VW Polo, a Porsche, and a Skyline got taken home on trailers that day.

[LukeC]

I have always loves VWs and their reputation (I even did an audit at the VW plant in Wolfsburg in 2010 where they make a car every 4 seconds or so), and had been trying to encourage my wife to buy one. However, a guy I know traded his Mini Cooper (modern one) on a Polo GTI. It ate oil like it was going out of fashion and it seems that VW has not sorted it yet (quite variable car to car). In the end, he sold it and bought another Mini. It sort of shook my belief in VWs.

So when my wife started talking 1 series BMW (she will not drive a manual, and niether of us are fans of the styling of front of the new Giulietta), I was pretty supportive. The car we ended up buying was a 123d (stonking 204 bhp and 400 Nm: FROM A DIESEL!!!!). I am glad to hear that BMW are so supportive of their products. This N47 engine has had a some history with timing chains (located at the rear of the engine). So to be sure we bought an extended warranty.

Dang BMW blows my Alfetta GTV T-S into the weeds.

[gtv6sv]

Lukec, took the words right out of my mouth! I know many people who say alfas are unreliable and all that, i get quite frustrated at times, funny thing is that my first car which was a '83 GTV strada, which had an original, unrebuilt engine/gearbox which had done 330,000 km (yes that is correct!) at the time and people would tell me or crack jokes in high school saying it will break down and all that. Yes the car had a bit of rust, yes it blew a bit of smoke, yes it would foul a plug here and there, yes it would go through a little bit more oil than usual, but not once did it leave me on the side of the road and it always started first kick. I took it to apollo bay, shepparton, lorne and many other places many times, and i have to say, i always had a smile on my face driving it! Meanwhile some people i knew had 90'/2000's model cars who would break down and be stranded on the side of the road. Reason for this, whilst i couldnt afford a rebuild at the time i regularly serviced my car by proper mechanics such maranello pursang, while these other people would neglect their cars. Somehow i still had the unreliable car according to them:-P

[LukeC]

I just bought and gutted a $200 twin spark 75. The car had 345,000 on it (original unrebuilt engine). I know, it used to belong to a mate of mine 10 years ago. It blew a head gasket and the owner parked it in his front yard for two years until he advertised it (By his own admission, he had given the car a massive hiding for about 4 years without ever letting him down).

I turned up, gave him the $$, chucked a battery in it, started firing after three seconds cranking. It idled after a couple of revs to clear the plugs. I drove it home and the body now has gone to Alfa heaven and all the good bit are in my shed (last time I tried to sell body parts here in Canberra proved to be fruitless).

I would jump in my '85 GTV T-S tomorrow and drive to Brisbane. I would take a few necessary bits and pieces for an emergency, but the only real hesitation I would have would be the lack of creature comforts.