Error Messages!

[Quattroporte]

I had a couple of queries which I'd appreciate someone shining some light on.

Every so often I will get an error message appear on the display. Since buying the car I have had "UDC System Failure", "ABS System Failure" and "Motor Control System Failure" all appear, but they have all disappeared after a few seconds or so and haven't seemed to affect the car in any way.

When we took it back to the dealership (Titan Ford in Brookevale) to have a relay cable replaced, we mentioned that these errors were coming up, and we'd like them to look into it. When we picked up the car a week later, they said that they had reset the computer system and this should have resolved these issues.

Clearly that hasn't been the case at all. The warranty runs out in approximately 5 weeks and I would like to have anything that might need to be replaced to be replaced by then.

We've had the car inspected by Alfa Specialists here in Sydney and the report came back with a few oil leaks, the dealership forgot to put a washer on the new relay cable and that there was a slight shudder in the ride due to a dented wheel. There were no electrical issues.

Today I was driving and as I pulled away from the lights the car became a bit jerky, before "Motor Control System Failure" popped up on the screen again, but this time it didn't go away. I turned the car on and off at the next red and all was well again.

The other week it stalled and the gearbox started changing gears rapidly and then error messages appeared. I switched it off and on again and like always everything was fine.

I've read and been told by a former 156 owner that this could potentially be caused by the lambda sensors? However, this owner, told me that when these issues disappeared in his car, the engine error light stayed on the dash. Mine does not do this at all.

I was wondering if anyone would be able to give me a better insight into what might be causing these issues, how to resolve it and roughly how much it would cost if we had it done specifically by Alfa people?

[Davidm1600]

Easy peasy, to answer your questions, well kind of.  I will deal with the last one, the engine/motor control system failure, is most likely a lambda sensor failure. You have 4 of them on a JTS engine and they all will progressively fail with age.  I have only recently replaced the last one (there are two top and two bottom sensors), and yes if they fail you will feel the car driving in a jerky manner.  However, more importantly if you don't fix this, eventually your car will stop.  I once had this occur and had to put the car on a tow truck, so my advice is don't leave it too long.

The only way to get this sorted is take it to your Alfa specialist to put on the analyser, that way you will know which sensor has failed and needs replacing.  In terms of what to do next, you can either get your Alfa mechanic to purchase and install, or alternatively do as I do, and I suspect plenty of others, purchase overseas.  Check out EB Spares Website in the UK, their prices, including postage will be cheaper than buying locally and it should only take 3-5 days to arrive.   Then get your mechanic to fit it up, clear the error message and no, the message should not come back. That is until the next sensor fails.

Cost wise, they do vary a little depending on which one you need, but from memory cost of a top sensor was around $80, with bottom ones a little more expensive.  Postage is around $30 I think.  Ask the guys at EB, they answer promptly.  In terms of fitting, I havn't actually had my bill yet but I wouldn't have thought it should cost more than $200, possibly less. The mechanics shouldn't really charge for clearing the error message code as it takes less than 5 mins to do that.

I sometimes get a message re ABS failure when I stop and put the handbrake on at the same time, and yet there is absolutely nothing wrong with the brakes.  Not sure re this, but when it comes on it does say that the handbrake is also on.  So who knows.

[Quattroporte]

Thanks, David.

I called Brian Foley (an Alfa Romeo Specialist in Sydney) and spoke to one of their mechanics.

I explained to him the situation to him and the fact that yesterday and today the "Motor Control System Failure" errors appeared.

He told me that this could potentially be due to the fuel in the car. I told him that I've only ever filled it up with premium 98 unleded fuel. Despite this he told me that the sensors could of picked up on some dirt in the fuel and that could of caused the errors. I was advised to run the tank nearly to empty before filling up again from a different station. If this doesn't get rid of the errors then to take it into them for a diagnostics test.

Keeping in mind they had already done a full car check over a picked up nothing, I'm hoping this will cure the problem. However, does the fact that they had looked over it, really mean it couldn't be something more serious?

He told me that at the time they looked over the car there was no errors because the car had been reset? This happens when I turn the car on and off.

The sensors can be replaced by the dealership worse comes to worse, but he said that the fact that the engine symbol doesn't stay on the dashboard, that it would suggest it isn't something serious.

Does this resonate with anyone?

[colcol]

How many klms has the car done Quattroporte?, it could be that the Lambda sensors are on the way out and sometimes because they are covered in gung, misread the oxygen levels and you get a stumble and an error message, but then it goes away, never heard about the dirty fuel before,....but thats why i get on the Forum, to learn things, you did the right thing by taking it to an Alfa Dealer, as they work on these all the time and have all the right Alfa Diagnostic equipment, Colin.

[Quattroporte]

My car only has 30, 000 kilometres on the clock and was built in August 2004 and on the road in 2005. The engine has never misfired either.

Does this matter?

[Quattroporte]

The error message came up for the third day in a row. Now I'm starting to think this is a deeper issue than first thought... 

[Victor Lee]

This sounds like a similar problem that we had in our 2002 156JTS, but I would have thought that by the time yours was built 2004, they would have rectified the issue.

We were told the same thing:  It must be blocked Lambda sensors, bad fuel etc.   We were not getting them as often as you but once every 3-4 weeks over 7 months was enough!  Apparently some gold connectors for some plug connectors were of inferior quality and were picking up random electrical signals which the computer interpreted as an error of one sort or another.  This explanation was provided to me directly from Ateco, the Alfa importers at the time.

I'm not sure what exactly the Dealer did, hard soldered those connectors or replaced them (& also I'm unsure which connectors they were), but we did not have the problem occur again.

But persevere with it, because we really enjoyed our car after that!

[colcol]

Have the battery connections cleaned and make sure all the earth wires are good, some Alfa Romeo specialists add an extra earth wire, with such a short amount of kms, i don't think your Lambda sensors would be worn out, the connectors on the Lambda sensors are excellent, they connect nicely and click together and then there is a locking device on the plug that keeps them together, unlike the old school Alfa's.
Make sure the thermostat is working ok and not opening too early causing a rich mixture, causing the catylitic convertors and Lamda's to become dirty with excess carbon.
You could also have a dirty spark plug or a coil pack on the way out, although, the coil packs usually die instantly, usually in traffic, when you are late for something, Colin.

[Quattroporte]

Tonight I was taking a friend for a spin and really going for it. When I took off from a standstill with my foot completely down the "Motor Control System Failure" message came up again. There was no jerk apart from a bit of wheel spin and I had to pull over to turn the car on and off again to get the message to clear. The car behaved as per normal. I realized at last fuel up I filled it up with the wrong fuel (I think) and as per the Alfa Specialists instructions I ran the tank almost empty before filling it up with Premium Unleaded '98 fuel. The car has been better than ever and no errors reoccurred until tonight. 

I plan on calling Alfa Romeo tomorrow and asking them their opinions, but I was wondering if anyone could shine some light on this particular incident?

[Craig_m67]

How old is the battery and is it a decent brand and the correct type?
If any doubt, get it load tested/replaced.

The ECU can give spurious errors if the voltage varies too much. The only time I have ever had the dreaded MCSE error - was during hard acceleration/merging - it came down to a battery that was cactus under load. No idea why accelerating created load BUT at the end of the day it was the battery which was the fault (less than 2yrs old too). Note this is batteries ability to deliver under load, not how many volts it puts out at idle, wacking a multi meter over it in the driveway will not test for this.

[Davidm1600]

I too went down the road of installing a new battery in my car and yes it helped but not sufficiently to sort out the sensor problem which in my case was definitely the culprit. But I do agree with Col, given how relatively few Kms you have on your car that would seem odd. The first sensor in my car failed around the mid 90k mark. The last one at around 122K. The other thing I found was that from a cold start it was the most erratic, the beeper alarm would sound and the symbol flashed and stayed on even after the error message disappeared.

If your car is not doing these things then probably it's not a sensor has failed, and perhaps it is fuel or some of the other things mentioned. I still think if it happens again and you can put it in the analyser soon as, it could be helpful.

[Quattroporte]

How old is the battery and is it a decent brand and the correct type?
If any doubt, get it load tested/replaced.

I had it tested by our local Auto Electrician who has previously serviced the Alfa's in my family. It's completely fine.

The ECU can give spurious errors if the voltage varies too much. The only time I have ever had the dreaded MCSE error - was during hard acceleration/merging - it came down to a battery that was cactus under load. No idea why accelerating created load BUT at the end of the day it was the battery which was the fault (less than 2yrs old too). Note this is batteries ability to deliver under load, not how many volts it puts out at idle, wacking a multi meter over it in the driveway will not test for this.

Pardon my ignorance, but what does the term "under load" refer to?

Since yesterday the car has been going really well, even when the mood strikes, and I feel like driving it a bit. It could potentially be the last bit of bad fuel exiting the car that it picked up on.

[Davidm1600]

I may be wrong, but I would assume, that under load or full load, logically would mean turning everything electrical (ie. radio, lights, aircon etc on, and perhaps to max, to check the level of drain on the electrial system and/or impact this has on the battery.

Hopefully it was the fuel thing and if so what an easy remedy   Good to be aware of that one, as I normally only use 95 rather than 98 in my car.  I am wondering should I too be using 98 ??

[colcol]

Another thing to look for is when you switch on the ignition, wait about 5 seconds for the computer to run through its check, when it gives you the ok message, start the engine, i have been told, if it doesn't get through its check before you start, you can get an error message or a flashing odometer, Colin.

[Quattroporte]

Turns out one of the coils were on its way out and as a result it had Intermittent Ignition Failure. They replaced the coil and it's running nicely.

However, today, I noticed that the temperature gauge seems to be moving down for the middle, even when the cars driving.

Has anyone ever experienced this? If so what was it and how do you fix it?