Gearbox Question 79 Alfetta Sedan

[Two Dogs]

Hi all, so the question is this. Can you remove separate the gearbox from the diff while still fitted to the car ?

It looks like you may just be able to drop the exhaust remove the tail shaft unbolt the box and slide forward and drop. The gap between the front of the box and the de-dion assembly is awful close though, so I was thinking perhaps that you may not be able to slide the gearbox far enough forward to clear the shaft going into the diff.

Thoughts ?

The reason for the need is that both my wife and I have been driving the car with knackered synchros for a while (double shuffling), however, after coming out of a roundabout the other day some ugly noises came up from underneath. There were different sounds for each gear and from what I can figure I'm wondering wether a selector fork has shat itself causing these noises.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Carl

[Beatle]

Yes Carl, it's possible. Just as swimming a croc infested NT river covered in pigs fat is possible. However unless it's an emergency, inadvisable. 

Just avoiding the crud from the underside of the car finding it's way into the transmission would be reason enough to remove the tranny entirely from the car.  I'd only ever attempt it with the car on a hoist

Then if you get the case off, and run into a problem where you have to remove the assembly from the car, you either have to reassemble, or wrestle the uncased, stinking, oily, writhing mess out of the car, risking bending something in the process.

Pat Braden's Alfa Owners Bible describes the in-car servicing of the transmission. Ch 7 Sect 2.2 & 3.2 (1994 edition).

I'm sure I have a photo in one of my books somewhere showing the naked transmission gearset underneath an Alfetta, but can't locate it at the moment.

Now I feel dirty.  Even the thought of it makes me have nightmares of the stench of gearbox oil.....

[VeeSix]

I have removed many a GTV6, 90 and 75 gearbox, alot better just to remove the whole thing and put it on a bench or similar to work on, just as much effort either way 

[Two Dogs]

Cool, appreciate the advice, even this bit " Just as swimming a croc infested NT river covered in pigs fat is possible" 

[Beatle]

Carl, before condemning the gearbox, double check it's not a giubo failure.  Different gears apply different torque to the shaft and might resut in different sounds which are incorrectly attributed to the gears.

http://www.ntnews.com.au/article/2013/07/01/322369_ntnews.html

[Mick A]

Hi all, so the question is this. Can you remove separate the gearbox from the diff while still fitted to the car ?

It looks like you may just be able to drop the exhaust remove the tail shaft unbolt the box and slide forward and drop. The gap between the front of the box and the de-dion assembly is awful close though, so I was thinking perhaps that you may not be able to slide the gearbox far enough forward to clear the shaft going into the diff.

Thoughts ?

The reason for the need is that both my wife and I have been driving the car with knackered synchros for a while (double shuffling), however, after coming out of a roundabout the other day some ugly noises came up from underneath. There were different sounds for each gear and from what I can figure I'm wondering wether a selector fork has shat itself causing these noises.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Carl

I completely disagree with the advice given by the other parties on this. I have removed many gearboxes this way, granted most times on a hoist, but I have also done this on the ground and it's much better than removing the entire unit. Just removing the gearset saves time and is easy if you do it correctly and know the right way and order of things. Here's a brief rundown, I have not listed everything that needs to be done exactly, this is a rough guide.

You'll need to remove the exhaust, unbolt the rear donut on the tailshaft, in a 4 cylinder car undo the clutch line and speedo and reverse switch wires, undo gear linkage, and remove selector, then you lower the de dion crossmember, put a stay in place to hold it down, then undo the gearbox front mounts and raise the transaxle up a bit to access the clutch bolts. undo and remove the clutch, put the box in gear by pushing in the selector rod, then you should be able to remove the stay, raise the de dion back up, and let the transaxle hang down by the rear mount.

Then you simply undo the sandwich plate bolts and carefully remove the front input shaft housing, then remove the sandwich plate and gearset, then do what you have to do on the bench and reinstall.

Cheers.

Mick

[aggie57]

Phew - thanks Mick.  I was thinking the same thing but felt I must have lost some memory cells!  Obviously it's been quite a few years since I did this and you've done dozens more than I will ever do but like you my recollection is its a pretty simple approach. 

As I recall the gearset itself is pretty light compared with the complete transaxle and easy to extract and reinstall this way.

[Beatle]

Carl, if you do decide to do the work in the car, you can borrow my pressure cleaner beforehand.  It's a 15 amp jobbie with an angled lance and does a good job of cleaning the undercarriage.

[Two Dogs]

Thanks Paul.

Have not made up my mind yet as to how I'll proceed. I had considered a guibo failure but an initial inspection did not reveal anything, I may rip out the tail shaft first and do a thorough inspection first.

Guys, thanks for the guidance, I'll let you know how I go.

Carl

[GR-124]

I vote to remove the whole unit as one. I'd rather split the case apart on a bench after its all cleaned and spotless.
that's my 2 cents worth.

[Mick A]

What is everyone's obsession with "cleaning the casing" first?

The casing will be hanging downwards when you get to the point of removing the gear set, so dirt cannot fall into the diff housing after the gearset is removed. 

Before you pull the front housing off, give the top of the transaxle a dust off with a rag or compressed air to remove lose dirt, so when you do get to pulling the gearset out, it won't be contaminated.

Complete removal then disassembly is another great way of doing the same job don't get me wrong! But the way i've suggested is definitely the time-saving method. There are simply less bolts to undo.


Cheers

Mick.

[aggie57]

You're actually more likely to get dirt into the gearbox on the bench than if you take Micks approach. Reason?  Taking the complete transaxle out disturbs it more and takes the dirt and any muck with it. Maybe that's why the obsession with cleaning first?

By contrast extracting the gearset alone leaves any dust or dirt in the car. You effectively have an extra pair of hands to hold the diff housing and so on, and there is absolutely nothing that you take apart this way that you wouldn't have to take apart on the bench (or garage floor) anyway.

But takes your pick. Me, I like to take the simpler way.

[GR-124]

I guess there's several ways to skin a cat

Carl, If you find yourself chasing some internal bits I have bucket full of transaxle internals.
I'm at Thornton.

PM me if required