Silver HU for 02 GTA

[flipch]

Bad news on the speaker front...    The manager of the installer business fixed the power problem on the HU, and then tested the components, speakers/tweeter etc. and found faults in the speakers, one reading 53.9 ohms (same side as the xover that read 10ohms earlier.   He says when you touch the speaker it is fine, but cuts out otherwise, suggesting a broken wire in the voice coil, which I gather isn't fixable.   He recommended either Rockford Fosgate punch p1's 6.5" for $300 or Alpine R's for $349, suggesting the latter would fit and sound better.   

So I am researching speakers.   Will post on one of the audio boards on that issue.   There are what look like good deals on Ebay for new Infinity Kappa 60.7cs $155, Focal PS165 $229 and Alpine Type R SPR-17S for $210.   

[shiny_car]

That's a pity.

What is your budget for speakers? What sort of music do you enjoy? How loud do you want it?
And what was your impression of the Alpine and RF speakers when you had a listen?

Given the limitation of choice down in TAS, I can make a suggestion of alternatives, and you have the opportunity to purchase from the Mainland (eg: Marty at Fhrx Studios in SYD is excellent deal with, and good pricing and delivery is no issue; it is what he specialises in; http://www.fhrxstudios.com.au/ ).

[flipch]

Budget; hoping to be under $300, but don't want them to be the weak link in the Clarion HU/Alpine Amp setup.

Music tastes:  60's-70's rock/pop, Dylan, Beatles, ELO, Rod Stewart, Neil Young, Randy Newman, Van Morrison etc.  Not brain shakingly loud, but often more than mid volume.  I like detail, clarity, good separation, staging and good bass but not exaggerated.

They didn't seem to have the speakers setup and I was beyond spending much more time there after all the hassles.  I will try a few other places with demo boards.   Autobahn had a good setup, with a few decent speakers and amps, but no Alpine or RF.  Should be a few other places hopefully. But I am probably going to have to rely on recommendations/test reviews etc. 

Thanks for the tip on fhrx.  I think I talked to him last time around before I ended up with what seemed like a great deal on the a/d/s setup from one of the audio forums.   By the way I read that a/d/s had a lifetime warranty... but as I am not the original owner I guess that is out of the question, also no original receipt.  Phonixfire on Ebay seems to have good pricing as well (most of what I quoted last post).

Thanks!
Phil 

   

[shiny_car]

Have a read of this review:
http://www.mobileelectronics.com.au/products/reviews/affordable_65_two_way_components_review/

I help run the MEA forums, so whatever you might post there, I'd just as easily answer here.

I personally favour Morel or Hertz, but your tastes differ to mine (in music, anyway!). But there's also Arc Audio XDi 6.2 which are proving very popular. For enthusiasts, these speaker-specialist brands would be favoured well above Alpine and RF, if you prefer a true-to-life sound rather than coloured and in ya face.

Give Marty and email and stipulate your budget, music tastes, the rest of the stereo components, and car. You can mention I sent you. He will get back to you with some ideas of what he recommends. I guess, just bear in mind this time of year may mean it waits until after NY before things progress. Or else get in quickly before most of the distributors close down for a break.

[flipch]

Good couple of reviews articles on 6.5 speakers on MEA, I'd read them and found them very helpful.

Marty came up with the Morel Tempo 6 and the Crescendo Opus 1.  I found the recommended best value under $600 from the other MEA review, the DLS RS6 Reference series, for $330 from Melbournes Acoustical Garage.

I tried a few places in Hobart with speaker demo boards, but only Autobarn had Hertz, everyone else had the usual cheap stuff.   The HSK 165's were good, quite a lot better than the ESK's, much better separation of individual instruments etc.  Out of my budget range though, and the DLS sound like they may suit my "ears" better any way.   There is a new set of Crescendo Opus 5's on Ebay for $350 starting price, but they don't review much better than the $239 Opus 1's. The Morel Tempo 6 for $309 seem like a good deal.  They are available from Israel for $187 landed, but I would imagine there would be no local warranty.

A local guy has some Alpine R's for $50, might be good for rears, but I think I may be able to run the a/d/s in the rear off the h/u, unless it is endangering the h/u. 

So the DLS's are on the top of my list thus far.   

[shiny_car]

Are Melbourne Acoustic Garage still up and running? It was run by Mark French, and he closed down his store in Langwarrin recently unfortunately. But he may still be clearing out old stock online; hope so, for your sake. DLS are definitely a very nice refined speaker.

Otherwise, I think the Morel Tempo 6 would be the way to go.

[flipch]

They have the DLS R6A and DLS RS6N.   

The RS6N has two separate x/overs and shallow depth mounting (53mm mounting depth, 146mm hole) and T25N tweeter (Nanoplate).  Frequency range 55 - 20.000 Hz Sensitivity 92 dB (1W/1m) http://dls.se/en/car/prod.html?produkt=en_844

The R6A has T25 tweeter and larger magnet (slightly better bass Frequency range 50 - 20 000 Hz.  Sensitivity 90 dB (1W/1m), Magnet size 100 mm, mounting depth 76mm, hole 140mm.  http://dls.se/en/car/prod.html?produkt=en_60

Negligible price difference.

So the critical question is whether the R6A will fit the GTA.  My a/d/s are listed as 67mm depth, 130mm hole.   Still a bit of room behind them to the window when it is down.  I had to make a bit of room for them width wise as they had a proturusion for the wire connectors.  I should make up mdf mounts anyway this time which I gather would let me mount them a bit further out in the door panel..  I guess the safer and simpler way is to go with the RS6N but the extra bass on the R6A would be nice  .

[shiny_car]

I fitted Dynaudio 77mm depth woofers in the doors of my old 156 TS years ago, using mdf spacers, without much trouble.

You have to ignore the specs like frequency response. The face value numbers reflect no significant difference (ie: 50Hz vs 55Hz is nothing), but they do probably sound fairly different. Probably do more research on MEA to see who has actually compared the two. Specs like this don't tell you how good they sound; much like the TRD Aurion is quicker/better 'on paper' than the GTA, but I suspect you'd find the GTA is more enjoyable to drive!

Generally, 'slimline' components are slightly compromised compared with normal, so I expect the R6A to be the pick of the two.

[flipch]

And yet another episode... 

I researched various alternative speakers, particularly DLS R6A's, as well as getting pricing and information on reconing.   But before making a purchase, I decided I should do some more investigations into the a/d/s speakers and crossovers, and the wiring, in case there was another problem causing the cut out, or another solution to the purported speaker problem.

I took the passenger door apart and removed the crossover and speaker.  I also removed the driver side speaker and tested both speakers with a small battery and the cone moved.  I then tested them off a small home amp, and they ran fine.  I then did as an a/d/s technician recommended, tested the I also tested the crossover with the original factory speakers which were fine as would be expected, and then the a/d/s speakers.  All sounded fine.  It should be noted that these speakers had run fine for almost two years in the same situation, but with the factory head unit and tweeters.  The manager removed the fuse on the battery end to protect the amp, and I continued to run the head unit through the rear factory speakers.

After getting as much advise as I could and trying to understand the situation, I finally found and paid a local speaker technician, to check the speakers and the passenger crossover.   He said it is very hard to do reliable ohm measurement on speakers.  He ran a couple of tests, including a frequency generator.   Both speakers ran fine on his test amp.  He said that issues in the speakers,  even serious ones would not cause the amp to go into protection mode.  As others had told me, this is most likely to be a short in the wiring elsewhere.   He then ran a frequency generator test.    This showed a problem at low frequencies, with distortion at below 50hz on one speaker, and below 150hz on the other.   They have tinsels attached to the corrugated spider which he said was likely to have been damaged and causing the problem at higher cone excursion.

Because he made clear that the speakers could not cause the amp cutting out problem, I had him test the speaker wires in the car and the amp connections.   As soon as he touched the passenger speaker wire entering the Alpine amp in the boot, the wire fell out.   The wire at the end was splayed and there was one strand of wire that splayed out its full length toward the adjacent speaker wire connection.   Another wire from the driver side speaker was also not secured and came out without any tension.   This was the same as I found with speaker wires on the crossover on the same side.   I then had him check the speaker wires for a short, but they tested fine.

I subsequently again disassembled the passenger door, and refitted the crossover, and both front speakers.   I properly re-connected the speaker wires to the amp, and then refitted the fuse.   I was astounded when the system jumped into life, and with a few setting changes in the headunit, the front speakers ran without any issue at any volume and continued to do so. 

Arthur Francis from The passenger side a/d/s has some susceptibility and weakness at very low bass frequencies, which showed up in Arthur Francis's tests below 200hz, but as he discovered, and I have subsequently verified, the problem with the cutting out of the Alpine amp was the shoddy wiring of the amp, not the speakers.  As Arthur said, they should have fitted spade terminals to the speaker wires as the Alpine amp doesn't have the best connections for bare wire.

I was always made to feel to blame because I had used speakers, rather than one's purchased from Auto Addiction.   I was told that if I bought from elsewhere to replace the a/d/s speakers they would not fit them.

I run a computer business.   If someone wants me to fit a used hard drive or other component I do it.   It is easy enough to test individual components.   In fact, as I understand it, it is much easier to test audio components.  They had sensibly tested my Response amp before fitting it.    Surely it would have been simple enough at any stage to have tested the crossovers and speakers.     With all the mistakes made along the way, and the carelessness  my concerns about the cause of the Response amp are renewed.   Why did it "smoke" and become unusable when it had been tested as working fine?  Was there a mistake made, another short that caused that too?

When I left from the last check at the fitters, I felt that unless I paid out for a new component set from Auto Addiction, then I was on my own with the problem.   
Most people would have just accepted what the staff told them and paid out for new speakers.   No doubt in that case the real problem would then have been seen not to be the speakers, and a proper check for the real cause would have been undertaken.   Would I have been told subsequently that it was the wiring fault and given a refund on the speakers and had my speakers, crossovers and tweeter refitted?   With my experiences thus far, I am not so sure.

I have written a long letter outlining the whole saga, but am not sure what I should ask for to rectify this litany of issues, poor customer service, lack of proper workmanship, and possible damage to my speaker.   A refund, free Dynamating for the doors or???   I doubt I can prove damage to the a/d/s speakers.    Perhaps I should drop the name "Consumer affairs"?   

Any suggestions? 

[shiny_car]

Live and learn. I'm glad it was sorted out. Dodgy wiring like should have been easily found by systematic troubleshooting. I don't expect the owner of the car to know what to look for if they are inexperienced; but a decent store should easily find a problem like that!

And given they installed it, they obvious rushed the job. So they should not have done a poor job in the first place.

Now that you've seen how it should and shouldn't be done, you've learnt from it. The next step is to evolve your knowledge and skills and do the work yourself next time. Honestly, it's not too hard once you can see how it should be done. Then there's nothing more satisfying than DIY, especially with the peace of mind that it's done properly.

I don't think there's much to be gained from pursuing the issue hard. See what their response is, but I wouldn't expect much unfortunately.

[flipch]

  Yes, you are entirely right.

I've learned lots.   I wrote them a detailed record of what happened to the Launceston management, and hope that they will gain from it and make any changes needed to make sure there is a professional audio company in Hobart as there's doesn't seem to be it at the moment.  I may be wrong, but I doubt I am the only one to have such an experience with them.   But it is up to them what they do about the quality of work. 

I have the Vibe active sub coming, and so am learning what I need to set it up.  Doesn't look too hard.

It is great having decent sound after all of this.

[flipch]

The saga still continues on this almost a year later!!!

The fitters have changed staffing and are now very helpful.  Three main causes of the ongoing issues.

1.  Slightly exposed wiring rubbing
2.  Short in one of the crossovers
3. Clarion DXZ856MP hums with nothing playing, and has alternator whine.   The fitter thinks it is the floating earth design.  It isn't there with Alpines and other newer model HU's.

They have a sale on and an Alpine CDE-148EBTi is going for $329.  It is black unfortunately, but does have a couple of silver stripes as well as red LCD, and would probably look ok with a silver facia panel.

The other choice is the marine CDA 9885M, for $460 on sale and is silver, but no red LCD.  Not sure how it will go with Steering wheel controls. 

Any advice?   Or should I look for something else?  It has been such a painfully long process I don't want to mess things up again.   I am running an Alpine MRX-F35 amp and a Vibe CBR-12 powered sub.

I am loving the a/d/s 346is speakers.  Brilliant.  I am sure there are better, but for $180 landed from the US I am extremely happy. 

[shiny_car]

The other choice is the marine CDA 9885M, for $460 on sale and is silver, but no red LCD.  Not sure how it will go with Steering wheel controls. 

Hopefully a new headunit will resolve the issue. And good to hear they've changed staff, hopefully for the better.

I presume it's the CDA-9886M. This is an oldie but a goodie (whilst a current model, it is many years old (4 at least), and thus a couple generations old in terms of Alpine spec). Nothing too fancy, looks good, all the basic features in a quality headunit. But, compare with the features of the new models. For example, it lacks things like inbuilt BT, not designed for iPhone5 (change the cable and you'll be right, but may not charge the latest Apple products without a 12V-5V adapter plug). It is compatible with steering wheel controls, with the right interface and patch lead.

You could also try and source one from the UK. Their model allows you to change the backlighting of the buttons to red.

[flipch]

Thanks Shiny,

Yes, I misread the CDA-9886M.  Went with the CDE-148Ebti because of the BT etc.  All the whine and rumble gone, but I am a bit disappointed that the sound quality isn't quite up to the Clarion's standard, at least to my ears.  Though I had played with the setting in the Clarion a bit, and haven't yet with the Alpine much.

The main problem is that there is very little bass coming from my Vibe CBR-12.   I've upped the Alpines sub level to max and the gain on the Vibe, but though it works, it is almost inaudible, while with the Clarion at those level it would have blown the boot lid off.   They damaged my original RCA's and put a thin new one, but one of those twisted anti-interference types, which I would imagine is a known brand.  Hope it is a simple solution, I know the Clarion had a setting to turn on external subs, but would imagine the Sub level on the Alpine would do that as soon as it is lifted above 0.

Nice to have the steering controls back, but the kit for it all was expensive at $180.  I would have liked to have sourced it myself, but time was tight as the decent fitter only visits here, and won't be back for a couple of months.