Need help and opinion regarding 159 selespeed.

[waterau]

Hi,

I am fairly new to the car scene and knowing my rights as consumer. This has happened and I am wondering what can I do.

I have purchased an Alfa Romeo 159 selespeed brand new from Zagame in 2010. The car has been having minor problems ever since brand new. For example, interior noice, failed fan, a door wouldn't lock or open from outside, power steering noice, selespeed playing up etc etc.

Being a not so fussy person I decided to live with having the minor faults and settled with their fixs.

However, ever since May this year the Selespeed gearbox plays up from time to time, switches to neutral all of a sudden in all sorts of timing. Also, there are times when the gear shows as 1 on the dash but actually in reverse gear.

Took the car back to them for fix as it was still under warranty, Zagame claims that the problem has been fixed but it then happened in September again and finally they replaced the Selespeed actuator. Good for less than 2 months and it happened again in November.

I know the warranty covers the failed parts to be fixed or replaced. It is really fair enough if part fails and car won't move so it gets back to fix on a tow truck etc. But this suddenly switching to neutral problem is putting my life at risk to be able to encounter it. Especially when they claim to have fixed in 2 times already and it always happen again after a short time frame.

The car is still currently under warranty but I completely cannot trust the reliability of selespeed anymore. And after doing some read up it appears to be a common problem that a lot of selespeed owners come across so it should mean that the Selespeed is FAULTY in design?

So should the dealer Zagame or the manufacturer / importer be responsible in any sort apart from fixing it over and over so that owners like me can continue to put lives on gamble? Or should they be liable on having such faulty designed products in the market?

At the end of the story I am really not trying to take any advantage or asking for too much. All I want is to either return the faulty car or get an exchange in another one with a normal auto gearbox. Doesn't matter if its second hand or anything as long as its liable and NOT Selespeed.

How likely am I going to be successful? How should I be going ahead to claim my rights if Zagame isn't all very helpful at our initial discussion?

Would really appreciate any help.

Thanks in advance!

[Garibaldi]

Hi, I am sorry you are having problems with your car.

I work in the motor industry and know about situations such as this.

The dealer has done the right thing fixing the Selespeed unit under warranty. It is not acceptable that it has been fixed twice and is still not operating correctly. The Selespeed transmission has historically been plagued by problems.

You are right in saying it has become a safety issue and you are within your rights to demand a resolution to this problem.

I would contact Fiat - Chrysler Australia and express your concerns to them detailing the issues you have had. Clearly it would be a waste of time fixing the transmission again. I would demand a new transmission or a replacement vehicle.

There are lemon laws in this state which protect a consumer in the event there are continuing problems with a vehicle that can't be resolved, particularly when it becomes a safety issue. The vehicle has to be fit for the purpose it was purchased for, yours clearly is not.

Good luck and let us know how you go.

[colcol]

The 159 is a 2010 model, wasn't that being imported by ATECO?, then who would be responsible for warranty claims, or did Chrysler - Fiat cover all the existing warranties?, you can see why Alfa Romeo's are not sold in the USA, some of the lemon laws state that if the car goes back to the dealer x amount of times, then the consumer has to get a new car in exchange for the lemon they are driving, Colin.

[waterau]

Thanks guys for the input.

Theres one more question.

I have signed the contract of purchase on 4th Nov 2010 and the car has been delivered and started rego on 11th Nov 2010. However the car has been delivered to the dealer in Sep 2010 and they claimed that the 3 years warranty starts from the day it was delivered to the dealer and NOT the day that I purchased or have the car delivered. Does that sound right?

Also, Zagame states that since the warranty is over now they are not responsible and wants me to contact Fiat Chrysler myself. I think it is not reasonable as the car has been having the same problem since May this year even if their claim of warranty being expired in Sep 2013 was right.

So what are the lemon laws and how do I find out what am I entitled to?

Thanks a whole lot for all the input guys!

[colcol]

I think that the correct start of the warranty period is the day the keys are handed over as a new car and the owner is the first owner, it would be different if it was a second hand car that is 6 months old and the second owner would be taking on a 6 month old car with 2 and a half years left on the warranty.
Some unloved AU Falcons sat around for years before being sold, but even though they were a few years old, they were sold with full warrantys.
I would contact Consumer Rights and change dealerships if you are not happy with the work, Colin.

[Garibaldi]

The date the new car warranty starts is the date it is registered so assuming you haven't bought a dealer demonstration vehicle the warranty should start on 11th November 2010.

I am surprised Zagames have this attitude as they are a well known dealer and you did buy the car from them and have it serviced there.

You could contact the Dealer Principal at Zagames if the service guys are giving you the run around. He may be able to help. If you don't get anywhere with him I would contact Fiat - Chrysler Australia. If they wont help you I would definitely contact Consumer Affairs.

[waterau]

I think that the correct start of the warranty period is the day the keys are handed over as a new car and the owner is the first owner, it would be different if it was a second hand car that is 6 months old and the second owner would be taking on a 6 month old car with 2 and a half years left on the warranty.
Some unloved AU Falcons sat around for years before being sold, but even though they were a few years old, they were sold with full warrantys.
I would contact Consumer Rights and change dealerships if you are not happy with the work, Colin.

Thanks Colin,

Would try and contact consumer rights tomorrow and see what I can do but I think I am more unhappy about the car instead of the dealership. So I'd rather not change the relationship but to get rid of the whole car.

I had a chat with a few of my mates yesterday and they mentioned that:

1. Warranty starts on the day the keys are handed over with rego if the car is brand new.

2. If a car has continuous problems, eg. having the same problems back to the dealership 3 times in a row (in my case, 2 different problems that had to repair for already 3 times each and multiple other problems). The dealership / distributor have to accept a return or exchange for a new car especially if the car is under finance.

Can anyone confirm whether these info are correct and how should I be going ahead in claiming such rights? Would consumer affairs be right or should i contact Fiat Chrysler by myself?

[waterau]

The date the new car warranty starts is the date it is registered so assuming you haven't bought a dealer demonstration vehicle the warranty should start on 11th November 2010.

I am surprised Zagames have this attitude as they are a well known dealer and you did buy the car from them and have it serviced there.

You could contact the Dealer Principal at Zagames if the service guys are giving you the run around. He may be able to help. If you don't get anywhere with him I would contact Fiat - Chrysler Australia. If they wont help you I would definitely contact Consumer Affairs.

Yes I am pretty sure the car was bought brand new. I have a feeling that Zagame is trying to avoid being held responsible for the faulty car as they claimed that they were only fixing my car "as courtesy" as warranty "already expired" so there's "nothing they can do".

Once I replied them that the car was bought brand new and the warranty is no way to be expired. Also the vehicle was first having this problem in May which was in every way still under warranty and they haven't fixed it. They seem to be trying to avoid replying on this matter and just want to collect their courtesy car back (then they crashed my car and have to repair it again).

Should I be just calling up consumer affair or should I head into their office personally? My mother called them up last week explaining the problem briefly (only mention this neutral gear problem and only mentioned the problem was just being fixed second time but in fact already 3 times). The lady on the phone tells her to report back if this happen to the car again (in fact 3 times already on just this matter).

I think I should contact consumer affair with a detailed full problem history and see how it goes tomorrow.

Thanks guys

[extraball]

isnt it the fair trading ombudsman now?

[waterau]

Heres some update:

So Zagame has asked us to write a letter and stating all problems in deep so  they would try to see what they can do on Fiat Chrysler side.

After writing a letter to them I have received a reply saying that they are only willing to offer a free service next time and also an extended 12 months warranty. Does that sound right?

If the car has been returned to them for all sort of fixes under warranty (faulty parts) for 10 times (2 different problems for 3 times each) already during 3 years, is there anyway to claim that it is faulty and ask for a return or exchange?

[Domenic]

Hey,

Give my brother Robert a call 0407 833 178. He's an Auto Electrician and has fixed many 156/147 selespeeds in his time and also about a dozen 159 selespeeds so far this year with selespeed issues.
I'm sure he'll be able to fix the your selespeed issue and get your car working again

Cheers
Domenic

[Garibaldi]

It is good they have offered you something. From a dealership point of view this is pretty much all you will get. Not withstanding the fact that your vehicle has had on going problems at least you will be covered by a further 12 months warranty should you have any further issues. I assume the warranty they are offering is comprehensive and covers the whole vehicle including the drive train. You will have to decide if you are happy with this outcome or whether you wish to take it further.