Brakes Squealing!

[Quattroporte]

My 156 has been absolutely wonderful. However, I recently got new disks, rotors and pads done by JAX Tyres. I've had them done x2 now, and they are still squealing like an absolute pig. I could be heard from a kilometre away! Heck, it sounds like I'm driving a semi-trailer. It's fine under hard breaking, but rolling to a stop, I've never heard such a noise!

I'm going to take the car back today again! Hopefully third times the charm.

Anyone able to shed some light on this issue?

[Cool Jesus]

Were the pads bedded in to the new rotor? May have glazed them.
Glazed or not, some copper grease behind the pad can help or grind off a 45 degree chamfer on the leading edges of the pads. The chamfering will certainly return your sanity back, had the exact same circumstances myself and stop the noise straight away. What's happening to you is the leading edge is vibrating causing the squeal between the back of the pad and the caliper piston as everything is so new. Take that sharp edge off to give it a chance to bed in. Just take off a 5mm bevel. The grease is just added medicine to help the rear of the pad move a little until it finds its sweet spot. Don't cake it on, just a smear where the piston contacts the pad. Normally pads come with a Teflon or similar gasket on the rear to alleviate squeal, but as Murphy would have it yours aren't quite doing it.

[colcol]

As cool jesus says noise is caused by the pads vibrating, the pads are glazed up and there is not enough friction between the pad and the rotor so its just squeeling, you just need the pads taking out and deglazed, i usually deglaze the pads by rubbing them in a  number 8 motion on coarse concrete to knock the glaze off.
I purchased some new pads a while ago from The Spare Place and they were Magnetti Marreli brand and they had a little chamfer on the leading edge and they didn't squeel when i put them in and the chamfer is now worn off and they still don't squeel.
Used to have  a VL Commodore which used to have noisy brakes IF you didn't put a orange silicon behind the brake pad between the piston and the pad, the brake pads used to come with the 'anti squeel' tube, this would stop many comebacks.
Quattroporte, may need to use Alfa Romeo specialist in the future who know all these little tricks, as opposed to a tyre dealer, who most likely does Commodores all day, Colin.

[Cool Jesus]

Good point, forgot about sanding off the pad a little. Just point out again, don't chamfer the entire depth of the pad just a few mm to give it a chance to bed in nicely. All your doing is in a sense creating a sled. Imagine taboganing. Rather than a box which will catch in the snow and tip you over, you use a deck with a slight turn up at the front.

[Quattroporte]

It's gotten progressively better as I've driven. Not sure whether that's a good sign? Colin, I completely agree! However, my Dad was persistant on saving the 300 odd dollars and using JAX. I have always stressed that I'd rather pay a bit more and have it done right the first time. Unfortunately, all our Alfa specialists are a bit of a drive away!

[colcol]

I can understand the problem of Alfa Service Providers being a fair old clip away, it seems to take forever to get there, do you know what brand of rotor and pads were used?.
I was told years ago that when you put new brake pads in, you should give them a good 'cook', that is do about 60 kph and apply the brakes as you are driving, until the front pads start 'smoking', this process burns all the gases out of the pads, that are present during the manufacturing process, these gases can act like a lubricant on the brakes and you can have problems, when you have to use the brakes hard for the first time, say when going down a steep hill, problem is you may glaze up the pads and they will be noisy and not work as good as an unglazed pad.
The better brake pad makers, 'pre-cook' their brake pads in an oven to remove all the gases, so you don't have to, Colin.

[Domenic]

As you mentioned your dad wanted to save $300 by going to Jax. There was a reason why they were $300 cheaper. they used cheap parts. When it comes to brakes on the 156/147 series cars, if you don't use a good quality disc and pad you will always get squealing doesn't matter what you do. It comes down to the compound and unless you use something good; Genuine, Ferodo, ATE, Textar, Magnetti Marelli like Col mentioned or even Raicam the brakes will always squeal.
All the above brands can be bought form Australian parts suppliers like The Spares Place, Italian Automotive Spares, Turin Imports.

I've heard bad reports on EBC pads squeal and in your case can be heard from km's away from mechanics and they avoid them like the plague. They machined the discs, chamfered the pads, used that sticky stuff on the back of them to stop them vibrating, gave the mechanic a specific method of bedding them in. The mechanic did everything the brake pad seller told him to do, and still they squealed and the customer wasn't happy.

Hopefully they get it right 3rd time, but if not maybe suggest they fix the issue by replacing whats on the car with good quality parts made by trusted brands from the above suppliers, not the generic discs and pads that are found online or from Burson/Repco/local brake place like ABS or Brakes Plus.

[colcol]

You only get what you pay for, you are not paying for someone to learn how to fix an Alfa Romeo, when you take it to an Alfa Service provider of your choice, and they usually get it right the first time as they have done it many times before.
My Magnetti Marelli brake pads work good, but they dust up the rims in a couple of days, anybody had any experience with brake pads that don't dust up the wheels so quick?
I have heard of some brake pads that are guaranteed to last say 60,000 klms, by being very hard, which means poor cold weather stopping, bad braking performance and no pedal feel, but they do last a long time, but have so little friction, they get the rotors so hot they warp them and to some drivers, long life, that is everything.
Has anyone heard of the brake pads called 'roadworthy specials'?, they are about $15 per set, made to get the car through its roadworthy, cause the brake pads are new and thick, but the so called friction material is wood, steel and anykind of cheap filler they can use, my mechanic mate comes accross them occasionally, usually when there is a problem with brakes, you have been warned, Colin.

[Cool Jesus]

So Quattro, what's the goss?
Although not beyond reason, I'd be surprised if a franchise such as jax would compromise their client base with fitting anything less than average pads. I guess it's just me, but without first hand knowledge I would prefer to give them the benefit of the doubt. I've replaced a few pads and rotors and have only once had the squeal which I sorted out with a chamfer. I'll add that I was particular in bedding in the pad.

[Quattroporte]

I managed to have them pay for Alfa Romeo to fix them and now they work perfectly.  When I had returned the old parts to JAX they were completely rusted through! Shocking! I swear I heard a little squeling today, but I don't see how that would be possible as I drove completely as per my mechanics instructions - don't cook them! The brakes were extremely weak at first, but having driven a good 400 odd kilometres in them they are now a good strength. However, now I keep hearing this rumble from the right front side of the car when I go over a bump. I had to have the gravel tray sqrewed back in on that side as it came loose. I believe it may be coming loose again and I will no doubt need to replace it to rectify the issue. Has anyone else had this issue beforehand?

[colcol]

The brakes are made of steel and they will rust up, which is nothing to worry about, do you know what brand was fitted?, i am on the lookout for some brakes for my 156 that don't dirty the wheels in a week, any ideas?.
The brakes will take a while to bed in, so the pedal may be a bit longer and you might have to push harder on the pedal, until the pads wear in to match the rotors.
The gravel tray or undertray or pain in the bum tray is made of plastic fibre and gets damaged easy, when it comes loose, have it fixed straight away, as it flops about and bits break off it.
Mine had a mixture of 6mm allen head and torx head screws of different lengths, i replaced mine with 6mm cap screws of about 25mm long, so they are all the same.
I think you can get aluminium undertrays for 156's at 'Alfastumper', they are quite pricey and freight is a killer.
I fixed mine with strips of aluminium pop riveted to the existing tray, after 4 years, its still hilding, fingers crossed!, Colin.

[Craig_m67]

We didn't bother putting the undertray back on mine after redoing the front wishbones/links and ARB. That was five years ago, no drama or noticeable difference other than the benefit of being able to reach and change the oil filter more easily !

[colcol]

I left my undertray off for a few months while i fixed it, and i noticed the engine got a bit dirtier from the splash from the wheels, the drag factor went from ,300 to ,305, so fuel use rocketed up, and the important thing, was that the undertray is good for catching oil and coolant leaks, so when you peer in the engine bay, you can see whats leaking onto the undertray, these Alfa Romeo engineers, think of everything, Colin.

[Neil Choi]

Mmmm, me thinks the undertray is obviously there for a good reason.


Such as to prevent nasties such as stones, mud, dirt and things flicking up into engine bay.


That timing belt is a little precious, along with other things.


So you change oil and service underneath say once every 5000km or 10000km, so maybe an hour out of your life to do so ie remove and refit tray.  Estimating, say 5000km, 50km a day, 100 days to do the 5000km, so about 80-100-120hrs of operation, equates to about 1% of time of operation, so for that "much trouble" I would be keeping the undertray on so save the possible extra wear and risk on the belt and other things.


I have a V6 156.  But then thinking about it, the 164 didn't have an undertray.

[colcol]

If Alfa Romeo could save $50 by leaving out the undertray, they would have, on the JTS, the cam belt is fully enclosed, but the serpentine belt is out in the open, they could have used the $50 to put in cup holders.
Once you get good at it, and make all the fasteners the same, it takes 5 minutes to get it off and 5 minutes to put it back.
When General Motors released the VE-2, they put an undertray on it to save fuel.
If you had a 159, they have about twice as many fasteners holding the undertray as the 156, Colin.