159 3.2 JTS Q4 ownership beginning

[Bretton Woods]

Hello AROCA,

I've just bought my first Alfa Romeo. It's a 2007 159 3.2 JTS Q4 with the Q-Tronic transmission. It has 109,xxx kilometres on the odometer, but I didn't get any service books with the car.
However, I contacted the dealer listed on the service sticker. The mechanic at lance Dixon revealed to me that the car had been serviced from new with after a short life as a demonstrator. They're asking for $90 to buy a replacement log book and to stamp it up for me.

Whenever I buy a car, I usually refresh all the fluids and some of the easier to access consumables. Can I have some additions or corrections to the list here. I don't have an Owners Manual, so some of the data may be missing or wrong for the 2007 model.

Can the lubricant in the front/centre and the rear differential be changed? Also, I'm unsure what sort of differential is at the rear.

Coolant: 7.5l of 50% water 50% coolant
Engine oil: 5.4l of
Brake fluid: ???l of
Power steering fluid: ???l of
Transmission fluid (for the AWTF-80SC): 6.0l of
New air filter
New fuel filter
New oil filter
New pollen filter

I'd really appreciate some input on this as well as any other suggestions for service at this stage.

[Craig_m67]

Download it here >>http://aftersales.fiat.com/ELUM/Model.aspx?brand_code=83&id_language=2&id_model=7ee9e731-6409-47b9-8595-1c753fa3c6bb&market_code=EN_EU&cat=lib&part_number=#1

You can buy the service log off ebay uk for £7./  >> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Alfa-Romeo-Service-Book-for-all-Alfas-GT-GTV-BRERA-JTD-145-147-156-159-166-/221315220151?pt=UK_CarParts_Vehicles_Manuals_Litterature_ET&hash=item33876a42b7

Complete hand books are also available. There is little difference between the Oz and UK version, ELUM will give you anything country specific

I'd be inclined to write to Fiat Australia and ask them why you need to pay so much money for proof of service history, they should be able to just print something out for you. It would encourage repeat business non?

[Bretton Woods]

Can someone enlighten me as to what's in the folder alongside the manuals and history booklet. Also, it looks like that eBay listing is for a card. Isn't the service history a booklet?

[shiny_car]

I just too had our Q4 for its 90,000km service with LD. I presume they have record of when it was last serviced? 90K should have been your last one, if not later.

Now, are you asking about specific fluids because you'll be providing them yourself? The actual amount of fluid you require will depend how well drained each system is. You may, for example, do with 5L of engine oil, but worth having 10L on hand, and use the remainder at the next service.

* Coolant, 10.3L: our car has red 'OAT' coolant, so ensure you choose a red coolant if that's what your car has (as opposed to green)
* Engine oil, 5.4L: Selenia Star 5W-40 is the factory spec, and what LD will provide by default; there is limited info via google if you're interested in specs like TBN and cSt, and wish to compare with an alternative; whilst I've never done a chemical analysis on the used Star, anecdotally I have had no issues
* Brake fluid, 500-1000ml (I was charged for 2 bottles for a fluid flush): I didn't check yesterday, but LD have previously used Castrol Super Dot 4 (now replaced/renamed with React Performance Dot 4); I have this in 3 'street' Alfa's, and have never noticed brake fade, so no issues

* PS fluid, 2-3L (I was charged for 3L, which included a complete flush and replacement of reservoir; actual capacity may be quite less): CRITICAL: seek advice from LD; the factory spec was a thicker GI/E 'red' fluid characterised as a Dextron III ATF (auto transmission fluid); THIS SPEC WAS CHANGED, but the manual and under bonnet decal may still state GI/E; it should now be a thinner GI/R 'green' fluid; there seems pros and cons for changing type of fluid if you currently have red, with arguments that 'if it ain't broken, don't fix it'; the thicker fluid is prone to cavitation with air, and air-locks within the pump causing whiny noise and has been blamed on pump failure overseas (much discussion on alfaowner.com forums in the UK if you're interested); also, the reservoir can become faulty, with a bushing working loose from the outlet connection, and affecting the position/function of a filter which I figure contributes towards bubbling; there's reports from one prominent UK service workshop where they changed a customer's fluid from red to green, then the rack seals leaked badly, however, higher km cars are at higher risk of issues and your's is ok; see what LD suggest, but I expect they'll refill with GI/R green; you may wish to ask them to inspect the brass bushing on the reservoir; I bought a genuine replacement from the UK and supplied it for fitment; yes, ours began playing up about 3 weeks ago, making a lot of pump noise and bubbling out the reservoir cap/overflow, which is when I started my research

*transmission fluid: AFAIK, these AISIN gearboxes are sealed, and you don't need to change the fluid over your lifetime of ownership; ok, fair enough if it's travelled 300K km or has issues, but I think LD will advise to leave it as-is
*filters: next time, I suggest planning ahead and purchasing from the UK (EB Spares or Alfaworkshop) to save money; you will discover how much they are from LD, which reflects the costs via Alfa Australia and various mark-ups (not blaming LD here; locally supplied genuine parts are usually expensive, for all marques of car)

Given LD know the history of the car and have been looking after it, unless the PO baulked at suggested maintenance, you can be confident it's in perfect mechanical condition, save for natural wear and tear. I've been servicing my newer Alfa's with LD for 13 years now, and travel about 2 hours each way for this! But I have been happy with their service over time, and the rapport I've built up with them means they look after me too.

[Bretton Woods]

Thanks. That's exactly what I'm after.

The Aisin transmission is shared with a few other makes. On the Saab forums, they seem to advocate flushing the fluid. I'm inclined to agree.

It may end up being a cost that I unnecessarily pay for, but I don't want the unit to give up on me.

I'm asking for specific fluids because I'm having this fluid dump done at the local mechanic who is completing the roadworthy. I'll book in to L D for the upcoming 120k.

[Craig_m67]

Page 266 of the aforementioned and linked owners manual

[Bretton Woods]

Yep found it.

[shiny_car]

I'm asking for specific fluids because I'm having this fluid dump done at the local mechanic who is completing the roadworthy. I'll book in to L D for the upcoming 120k.

I presume the fluids change are not required for the RWC? I would therefore suggest booking the car in for service as soon as you buy it, and have it serviced and all fluids changed at your request. It seems odd to me that you would let a non-Alfa specialist do the fluid changes (unless they are an Alfa indy?) and not have the car serviced for another 10K km?

For peace of mind, you get all this sort of work done with an Alfa indy or dealer, in one hit, shortly after purchase. RWC is a separate issue.

If buying the fluids, it's up to you whether you stick with the dealer product (Selenia, incl their own power steering fluid), or choose your own. Nothing wrong with either, though choosing your own allows you to research and find something better, and usually always cheaper. I like Penrite products for value-for-money, so check their products. For engine oil, you may prefer product from Castrol, Mobil, or premium Amsoil, Royal Purple, or Redline (presuming the right spec is available). If spending a lot of money, then do the research regarding things like TBN, HTHS, cSt, etc (make no mistake, I am no expert, but I read about these things!); there's an interesting thread on the ausalfa forums: http://www.ausalfa.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4278

For the QTronic, note that the fluid is obviously different to the manual gearbox. The downloadable owner's manual is for the manual gearbox. There is a separate QTronic downloadable manual, and the specified fluid is Tutela GI/VI.

Tutela and Paraflu are products from the same parent company as Selenia, Petronas. No surprises there.

Back to my point about LD changing your fluids: if you want the factory fluids, then you'll probably find it hard/inconvenient to buy except through a dealer, like LD. So might as well have them do it. If changing brands, no big deal.

[Steve S]

Coolant: 7.5l of 50% water 50% coolant
Engine oil: 5.4l of
Brake fluid: ???l of
Power steering fluid: ???l of
Transmission fluid (for the AWTF-80SC): 6.0l of
New air filter
New fuel filter
New oil filter
New pollen filter

If the car still has the original coolant I would use the same genuine coolant. Then you can just drain and refill the radiator. If you use aftermarket coolant you should really flush out all the old stuff which can be difficult, not to mention bad for the environment if it goes down the drain.

Engine oil spec is nothing special. Any ACEA A3 5w40 will meet the spec, e.g. Mobil 1 0w40, Shell Helix Ultra 5w40, Castrol Edge 5w40, Penrite HPR 5w40.

Just use dot 4 brake fluid

Interesting notes on the PS fluid. If you are going to stick with the original DXIII spec you can use the same fluid as the trans.

Aisin transmissions generally use Mobil 3309 ATF which I believe is a friction modified ATF. Toyota T-IV is an identical specification. Penrite list their top full synthetic ATF for this car and that does meet Toyota T-IV so it's pretty safe to say that is the correct fluid to use. Castrol Transmax multivehicle also meets the T-IV and 3309 spec. Dont believe the "sealed for life" nonsence. I would not bother with a full flush. If the trans has a pan, take it off, clean it out and refill it with fluid. At the next service drain and fill the transmission again. As for how ofter to drain and refill the trans after that, it's only a guess but once every 50,000m should be more than enough.

[shiny_car]

Aisin transmissions generally use Mobil 3309 ATF which I believe is a friction modified ATF. Toyota T-IV is an identical specification.

Dont believe the "sealed for life" nonsence.

OK, this seems logical, thanks Steve. When I read 'somewhere' they are 'sealed', I took that literally (ok, I clearly shouldn't believe everything I read  ). If it's uneconomical to drain and refill (ie: not just drain a drain plug, but have to pull the transmission out to crack open), I will not do it. Otherwise, I will enquire for our next major service at 120K km.

[Bretton Woods]

Thanks for the input regarding mechanics. I took the car straight to my local mechanic for a roadworthy, but on the way there the alternator failed. At the time I didn't consider Alfa specialists - I was simply concerned with getting the car running again. In future, all servicing will be undertaken by an Alfa specialist ie 120,000k service.

The last service was confirmed to have taken place 4,000 kilometres ago by Lance Dixon, but was just a minor service. Oil and filter. I think I can wait until the next official major service at 120,000, seeing as the car is currently at 109,000. Does anyone disagree?

I spoke to Mauceri Motors today regarding flushing the Q-Tronic transmission. He had some reservations about doing so. He said doing so sometimes frees up accumulated gunk that can jam up the valves.

Has anyone here experienced this having flushed the transmission?

I compiled the full list of service items to undertake. I have included the Alfa Romeo recommended fluid, the fluid standard and quantity. If anyone has some suggestions or input on alternatives, I'd welcome it.

Engine oil
SELENIA STAR
SAE 5W-40
5.4l

Coolant fluid
50% PARAFLU UP/water
CUNA NC 956-16, ASTM D 3306
10.3l

Q-Tronic transmission fluid
TUTELA GI/VI
ATF AW-1
6.0l
Mobil ATF 3309

Gear drive idler unit (Power take off unit) fluid
TUTELA CAR MULTI AXLE
SAE75W-85, API GL-5, ZF-TE ML 18
0.6l

Rear differential fluid
TUTELA CAR MULTI AXLE
SAE75W-85, API GL-5, ZF-TE ML 18
0.75l

Brake Fluid
TUTELA TOP 4
FMVSS no. 116, DOT 4, ISO 4925, SAE J-1704, CUNA NC 956-01
0.5l

Power steering fluid
TUTELA GI/R
ATF DEXRON III
1.3l

Spark plugs
Bosch HR7MPP152
x6

Air filter

Fuel filter

Oil filter

[shiny_car]

Power steering fluid
TUTELA GI/R
ATF DEXRON III

You don't want ATF Dextron III spec fluid. That was the original GI/E spec, as per my understanding.

But Tutela GI/R will be correct.

Think carefully about value for money. Granted, I too would consider changing all fluids every 100,000km. However, you'll be paying 'per standard quantity' of fluid. That is, you can't buy 1.3L of power steering fluid; you'll need to buy 2L, and maybe 3L like me for a full flush to change spec.

It'll add up.

[Bretton Woods]

I'll ask Mauceri what they use and get them to do it. They are significantly closer to me and may offer lesser prices than L D.

I think it can wait for another 5000, though.

[Steve S]

GI/R is some very interesting PS fluid! It has an enormously high viscosity index of 313!

I doubt there will be a problem under normal temperatures but there is an enormous difference in very cold climates. Below freezing GI/R does not thicken up like ATF does. They do comment on its low temperature performance. Maybe that is the reason they use it.

As for the Trans fluid. Penrite recommend their full synthetic multivehicle ATF. I would be happy to use that as Penrite seem very conservative with their transmission fluid recomendations. I would not use something the manufacturer did not recommend it for the job.

[Steve S]

Well done Cool Jesus!

http://www.alfaclubvic.org.au/forum/index.php?topic=10096.0