Interesting report on the reasons behind continually dropping road toll in NZ

[aggie57]

The road toll in NZ is falling and has been for the last 25 years. Seems that someone wanted to understand why, and not just preach the same old tired messages:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11283273

[Barry Edmunds]

Alister, a very interesting read and certainly one worth following up by the authorities here in Aus.
That is highly unlikely as our very own police and road safety people seem far more content with pushing their one line simple messages and beating the living suitcase out of anyone who dares to infringe the speed limits by the smallest of margins instead of getting really serious with a road safety campaign that seriously looks at the causes and effects.
It is, after all, so much easier to simply employ cameras and rake in the proceeds than actually delve into driver attitude, inadequate driver training, driving under the influence etc and the many other contributing factors to the local road toll.
Just imagine the impact on the government revenues if they weren't getting boosted by the hundreds of millions of $$$$ collected from traffic fines. These traffic fines are voluntary of course.

[aggie57]

Personally Barry I see the way it's approached in Australia as bordering on lazy. We should demand better and not meekly accept the simplistic approach we get.

[colcol]

But we keep electing these knuckleheads who look upon the motorist as their cashcow.
They sold of all the utilities that they made money from, now its the money camera's that bring in the folding green.
We continually let them get away with it because the motorists can't organise themselves into a pressure lobby group, there was a faint hope with 'The Motoring Enthusiests Party', but now thats been hijacked by Clive Palmer, i am sure i will die of old age before the RACV do anything.
Ok, so you get a money camera fine, so what, you pay it, and thats it....but no, you have to tell your insurance company, who 'adjust' the premiums, cause they can, apply for any sort of job where you might have to drive, and that may involve the company ute, and any money camera fines for the last five years and there will be no taking the ute.
With the advent of cheap cars with ABS, Stability Control, Air Bags and other features, all the old unsafe deaf traps are being pensioned off, even P platers are driving new safer cars now, back in my day, when Dinosaurs walked the earth, P platers were driving 20 year old rustbuckets.
And with all the traffic increase, cars are actually moving slower, so the Politicians will have to reduce the speed tolerance down from 2% to 1% to keep up the cashflow.
Every time over a long weekend the road toll goes up, because there are more cars on the road therefor more crashes, you get the Chief Commisioner of Police calling it a 'bloodbath', and saying the police are going to have a further blitz on motorists, while Treasury rub their hands.
They need to seperate revenue raising from road safety, until that happens, we are just going round in circles, Colin.

[Darryl]

The study itself is interesting. The reaction is disappointing/doesn't bode well for any reaction here. For example it seemed that the AA motoring affairs manager Mike Noon seems to be supporting the same old line despite the evidence:

But he believes police and transport officials are right to concentrate on lowering speed and drink driving and says we are already seeing the effects... In 1996 more than half of all drivers were snapped travelling above the 100km/h speed limit on the open road. Now only a quarter do so. The the top 15 per cent of all speeders were travelling at more than 115km/h in 1996. Now the cut-off mark is 102km/h.
Speed matters, says Noon, because it's a collective risk that builds across the thousands of cars on the road at once. "You're not greatly increasing your risk as an individual but if everybody does that, then across the network it does make a difference."

Really? Is there emperical evidence to back that up - like making the open road speed limit 15km/h higher so "everyone does it" and seeing if it causes a big increase in accidents??? Presumably nobody is doing more than 2km/h over the limit any more because they can't afford the fines and other penalties (no idea what NZ demerit etc system is these days) not because they think it is "safer". Just like here...

Also not sure what exactly this guy experienced in Oz but it certainly wasn't any ESC system I've seen. Whatever it was it sounds #$$#@ dangerous unless you snap replace every human controlled vehicle on the road with this system - and include some sort of comms and mutual avoidance coupled into the decision logic:

Transport Agency road safety director Ernst Zollner agrees, particularly after experiencing the technology himself in Australia.
"They put me in a car in the middle of nowhere and said, 'Now, try to drive into something.' I said: 'You can't be serious.' They said, 'Go on, try.' If you try to cross the median barrier, this car will not let you. It doesn't allow you to drive off the roads."

[poohbah]

Interesting, but clearly seems logical that better roads and better cars would have an effect.

Good point that Col made about even P platers now driving modern cars with all the safety doodads.

Things have definitely changed - my first car was a 73 Corolla I bought off my mum for $50. It might have been basic and completely devoid of power, but it was a manual rear wheel drive, and I quickly learned how to correct oversteer in the wet after an unintended detour into someone's front yard! What followed was a string of old bangers bought for chump change and run until they stopped, at which point they were simply replaced with an equally cheap but always cool(-ish) old runner. ( I had a real passion for Valiant wagons!)

But with a 16yo son now heading towards driving, I am facing the seemingly widespread view that you are irresponsible if you allow your kid's first car to be anything other than a late model with multiple airbags ABS and ESP.

I'm glad to say Boy is adamant he doesn't want a modern buzzbox hatch. So I'm thinking something
European, cheap because its 10-15 years old, with style and plenty of airbags will do the job. Sounds just like my 156!

Seriously though, anyone have a view of early Volvo S40s, MB 190s, Audi A4s or BMW 3 series as a first car option - they seem to be available for $5-10k. But if maintenance requirements are prohibitive, then I may as well go and put a second 156 in the driveway...

[Darryl]

Seriously though, anyone have a view of early Volvo S40s, MB 190s, Audi A4s or BMW 3 series as a first car option - they seem to be available for $5-10k. But if maintenance requirements are prohibitive, then I may as well go and put a second 156 in the driveway...

You can't park an Alfa and a BMW next to each other or they will start sabotaging each other while you aren't looking

I'd avoid the Audi on parts costs grounds unless the aftermarket supply has improved recently. But it is all relative and I don't know enough about the others to comment (other than silly jokes).

[poohbah]

Cheers Daryl,

I'd dearly love to get a second Alfa, but know that teenagers' general inattention means it will likely be blown up unless old muggins pays the maintenance bill.  Sad as it sounds, the Volvo is actually my preferred option, if we can find a manual T5. 2nd choice would be the 190, again if we can find a manual (I would really hate putting an Audi or Beemer in the driveway!). Still plenty of time to look, with 12 months up my sleeve.

[wantok]

Actually based on the statistics the road toll in Australia has dropped even more than in New Zealand over the years.

In 1975 there was 26.59 road deaths per 1000,000 people to 5.16 road deaths per 100,000 people in 2013.

In 2013 there was 6.4 road deaths per 100,000 people in New Zealand.

Based on this it could be assumed that the measures the authorities have implemented here are working despite our perception that they are just trying to increase public revenues.

If you want to drive your Alfa fast guys get it out on a track day, trust me it is the best thing ever.

Cheers,
Wantok

[poohbah]

Interesting stats Wantok. And I pretty much agree with you - but for one thing about revenue raising.

Not sure how it works in other states, but in WA the speed cameras are now run by private operators.

Twice I have been pinged by cameras set up about 100m ahead of signage showing an increased speed limit. Basically I was snapped as I was getting up to the increased limit, though I was still well under it.

I know I was still at fault, but that has nothing to do with road safety, it's just plain bastardry.

[aggie57]

My personal frustration around this topic and why I thought the article was worth posting is the monotone 'speed kills' message we have constantly here in Australia. 

The physics of it all and what happens when two objects collide are really simple to explain and should be dealt with in school.  I'd have thought a pair of juggling balls and some skittles would do the trick for most people. 

Wouldn't it be lovely if we did that and the moved the conversation on a couple of steps, like what happens when you drive a car with bald tyres in the wet?  Hey - sure speed kills but more likely in that case the idiot behind the wheel maims through lack of maintenance.  Take a look at the tyres of cars around you at the lights.  Scary.  But Officer - I was doing the speed limit. 

[wantok]

For sure the whole issue of road safety is more than just speeding and there needs to be a focus on all areas of driver behaviour and attitude however to my mind at least speed is a cause in many accidents and it appears that one effective way to ensure reasonable people do observe speed limits is to enforce them with fines for transgressors.(And I include myself as one who has had the odd fine over the years).

Of course there will always be a certain percentage of road users who have a blatant disregard for the rules and the safety of other road users no matter what which is well illustrated here in Queensland by the number of disqualified drivers who are caught repeatedly driver whilst under suspension!!
I would have thought the simple solution was if caught under such circumstances, no excuse-straight to jail for you!

[Darryl]

Based on this it could be assumed that the measures the authorities have implemented here are working despite our perception that they are just trying to increase public revenues.

You could assume that, even though it would be surprising if the NZ report's findings were not applicable here (those findings show, essentially, that that assumption is inconsistent with the road toll changes there).

[Jekyll and Hyde]

In 1975 there was 26.59 road deaths per 1000,000 people to 5.16 road deaths per 100,000 people in 2013.

That looks more like the road toll has doubled to me...


And yes, I love doing track days.  They're great.  I'm just a little concerned I'm going to fall asleep of sheer boredom during the 5 or so hours it will take me to get there when they manage to get our statewide maximum speed limit down to 40kmh.  But at least I won't die as a result, after all it's only speed that kills.  Sleeping, eating, counting clouds, masturbating - they're all good.

Although, come to think of it, I'm at a loss to explain my head doesn't just spontaneously explode on the main straight of the Island... My speedo must be very inaccurate...

[colcol]

And here in Victoria, the Police flew a kite about dropping the blood alcohol limit from .05 down to .02, saying that 20% of all road crashes, the drivers are over the legal limit, if you are an aeroplane pilot your alcohol limit is .00, Colin.