Alfa roof not working

[samar]

Hi Guys,  hoping I can get some help, so recently replaced  my roof cover motor, the one close to the battery in the rear compartment, now the cover pops up, then the roof just doesn't fold back... It makes all the noises but just doesn't move. Any ideas ? Thinking it needs to be reset or something
Thanks in advance
Sam

[Neil Choi]

Think it is to do with the nylon gear in the stepper motor, it only moves in a few teeths and they wear out.  I have heard you can disassemble the motor and move the gear around to use the other teeths.  I think some independent Alfa workshop sells replacement gear. 
I am only guessing and remember reading this kind of problem from one of these forums.

[Garibaldi]

The nylon gears do wear out. I know of a supplier who sells replacement metal gears but given they are not a club sponsor I wont mention who they are here. PM me if you are interested and I will give you their details.

[Cool Jesus]

Yeah, he's sorted out his gear cog. Sam and I have been PMing and I asked him to post the thread to share the knowledge.

Anyhow, there's a few possibilities with the roof not playing nicely. In Samar's description, by far the most common issue I'm finding owners are having is the hydraulic fluid level within the system. Obliviously leaks could be the cause of the loss of fluid, however many (including myslef) just find that the fluid disappears. Not sure of the composition of the fluid, as far as evaporation or decomposition, but  the difference of about 50cc is all it needs to start playing up.

To renew the fluid is by far the easiest/cheapest of items to check and do. There's no service intervals for flushing, I do think it may mention to replenish or check the level. Anyhow, the OEM costs a bomb. I've found that Penrite has an exact alternative in its LDAS fluid. About $20 for a litre bottle, can't remember the OEM price as I lost my memory after hitting my head falling off my chair when they told. Do get a fluid syringe, you can't do without it for this job and comes in handy for other fluid fills such as transmission. Anyhow, syringe will set you back another $15 or so and that's it...

[Cool Jesus]

Now, find yourself a contain that will hold about a litre (preferably a graduated one) to place the removed fluid from the pump. The pump is on the passenger side inside the stow behind the seats. There should be a cap, remove it and start pumping the fluid out with the syringe. The system holds about 700ml give or take 50. Once you think your done, leave the syringe and container handy as you need to now manual lift and close the roof. This will pump out any remaining fluid within the lines and rams. Do this about 3 or 4 times, roff up, roof down, then pump the remaining 80ml or so.

Once content that you've removed as much fluid as you can, its time to replace with fresh fluid. You should notice a big difference in clarity and viscosity. Pump the new fluid in with your syringe until it reaches near the cap or the full line if its visible. This should use up at least 600ml of not a bit more. Put the cap on, start the car and run the roof up and down a few cycles. This will get the pump to circulate the fluid through the lines and ram. Don't be miffed if it doesn't start moving straight away, remember the system retained a small amount and it has to fill the void we created and top the reservoir up.

At this point, check your fluid level again and you should find that a further 80-100ml is required. Cycle the roof up and down again and JOB DONE 

NOTE; make sure your running your engine with the pump, otherwise it will drain the battery.

As you can see, I mentioned the graduated container so that you can better determine whether or not the fluid was down, and just to give yourself an idea of how much fluid is required.

[Cool Jesus]

Samar, if this doesn't sort out your roof, we may have to revisit what's occurring. Double check to see if any fluid is leaking at all the line connections and the rams. I imagine it will be very easy to find if not by sight but by feel with your hand. Its more than likely that the fluid is just low, if it wasnt such a cheap an easy procedure I'd be more cautious, whoever its only $20 for the fluid and it doesnt hurt to flush the system.

The fact that you can hear the pump running indicates to me a lack of fluid. There's no reset function for the roof. Its self diagnosing and remembers its settings by taking ques from the various switches throughout the mechanism, windows and handbrake. Other issues are electrically related with relays and various switches, but I don't think we're at that point with your mechanism. In the heat my spider's center console switch gets too hot and the contacts move within the switch as it has been non function every once in a blue moon. I've also got a relay playing up for the windows to re roll up after the roof is up. Works fine when the roof is down, yet to have a look to find the cause. In saying this the gremlins aren't that difficult to determine with the roof.

Now roof alignment, that's an art in itself. Spent a whole day trying to fix a slight misalignment, still not quite right 

[samar]

Cool Jesus .. thanks for your help.. but I got stuck on steps 2.

step 1 : fluid and syringe purchased
Step 2: There should be a cap, remove it !!

I cant find a stupid cap to remove it.. 

any help to its location is appreciated

thanks
Sam

[Cool Jesus]

OK Sam, grabbed a few photos for you.
1 - First photo shows the roof hydraulic system in the cargo compartment just behind the seats and located over towards the left side of the vehicle. The reservoir can just be seen over to the left of the image (sorry its a bit fuzzy)
2 - The pump as seen from the compartment opening. You can see here why the syringe is required. The 'special screw cap' as Alfa names it, is visible tucked away beyond the support which is in the way. I've also highlighted the diagnostic connector for the pump should anyone need to use it.
3 - Here's the tank. The screw cap looks to be a 10mm bolt. The fill lines should also be present along the horizontal axis of the tank. The manual calls them notch A and B and there should be fluid between these two lines. If you go above the full line, you will need to remove the fluid to keep below the line (per workshop manual instructions). Looks like I need to top mine up a touch  Oh, and make sure your on a level surface or account for this. You can see that my spider is on a slight incline in the garage.

[Cool Jesus]

I've also included here the relevant section form the workshop manual. One item a missed above was that the level should be checked with the roof stowed away and the cover closed...
Anyhow I've attached the procedure in pdf format. I've also added images of the Penrite LDAS alternative along with the OEM Tutela Gi-R used by Alfa.

[samar]

Thanks for the helpful pics.. looks like it going to be a tight squeeze for my large hands. might have to outsource the work

[samar]

Ok, so I know how much you guys love a good story especially one with a happy ending..
here it goes.

So armed with my syringe, oil and a iPhone, found the dreaded cap that I'm spouse to remove to suck the oil out and replace.. The spot is really tight to get your hands into.. problem was that my fingers are to fat to do this delicate work, and you cant get your head around to see the oil level so I tool a photo to see the level of the oil. Photo turned out ok and the level of oil was spot on..

I was really in two minds about going into all this effort to change this oil.. so I thought I would just try the roof one more time..

With my fingers and toes crossed I kicked the car over, love the purr from the engine with the quad exhaust , pressed the magic button and the lid opened (that wasn't the problem) then to my amazement the roof started to come up.. I really didn't believe it.. so I tried it about 5 times to make sure it wasn't a cruel joke the Alfa gods were playing on me..

Not sure what happen, maybe it was the some wire that I moved around while trying to get my fat hands to the oil cap.. don't know.. but I am one happy spider owner whos roof is now working after 6 months of praying for no rain while I'm out and about.

So if you see some tosser in a silver spider at the traffic lights, with his roof coming up or down, don't hate.. its me doing it cause I can

Big thank you to Cool Jesus for the pics and all the info.. really appreciate it..

[Cool Jesus]

Take the win while it's there then. Every chance a relay may have been loose or otherwise and manipulate your fat hands around there may have helped.

Just for future reference and other owners. As long as the rear hard cover locks down and the two pins are screwing to lock the roof pins in, you can manually open and close the roof without the automation. So don't think your stuck for a ride with the roof down and inclement weather ahead.

PS at 120kph bucketing rain will blow over you if the roof is off