GTV

[t-rev]

Hi, i'm just wondering if people have an opinion on 98-03 Gtv's and their differences such as 5 0r 6 speed and the differences in phase 1 and 2 apart from cosmetics. Is their much difference in the 3.0 v6 in these models?

[alanm]

Hi

ENGINE
Phase 1 and 2 share the same 3.0 V6 with, I gather, very small differences (exhaust manifold?) – 220hp.
The phase 3 car has the 3.2 V6 in common with the GTA's – 250hp. The V6 is a superb motor.
Phase 1 and 2 I think have the 2.0 Twin Spark motor, phase 3 the 2.0 JTS.
Based on my research the twin spark is a better choice than the JTS because it has fewer maintenance issues.
GEARBOX
Phase 1 cars have 5 speeders, phase 2 and 3 have six speeders – all good.
DIFFERENTIAL
All cars came out of the factory with a standard diff, highly recommend changing to LSD because the standard diff occasionally breaks causing all sorts of mayhem. About $2K installed.
SAFETY
Phase 2 and 3 cars have EBD I think, phase 2 does not.
BODY
I guess you only need to look at some pics to see the differences!
RESEARCH
The book I have attached is a fantastic source of info, also there is a road test book which provides a lot of insights.
JEMREMY CLARKSON
Find the Clarksons 'The GTV is daft but I absolutely adore it' video and you will want to buy one tomorrow!!!!

Hope this helps, Al

[Alfapride]

Great advice

Personal view is these cars become more desirable in years to come featuring the Italian busso engine and looks stunning...q2 diff upgrade is a must and make sure timing belts changed on time

[t-rev]

Thanks for that info! i just sold my 156 jts, great car and a lot more reliable than i expected but i just can't help wanting a 3.0 V6! To me the GTV has got a lot of 'timeless' appeal in it's styling and form. Perhaps not the most practical car,but i think i would be buying one to drive only a few days a week to work on long winding roads with very little traffic, so i'm thinking the extra fuel would not be to horrific. What has put me off a little has been really stiff clutches in some i'v tried, does this indicate a clutch on the way out?And i'v heard if you blow a diff, you can wreck the gearbox as well? Do these break with strong throttle, or does it just happen randomly? 

[colcol]

Usually when a clutch starts to get heavy, it means the clutch is on the way out,....however if you don't know what a new clutch versus and worn clutch feels like, then you will have to rely on a service record stating any work done, for peace of mind, take it to an Alfa Romeo specialist to look it over, before handing over any $$$.
The diffs turn x amount of times and then they break, you can be backing out of your drive first thing in the morning and it breaks.
When it breaks it smashes the gearbox casing, which is big $$$ and the remains of the gearbox has to come out to be repaired.
Might be a good idea to put a new clutch in when the Q2 is installed, Colin.

[alanm]

I drove half a dozen 3.0 and 3.2 litre cars before I bought mine and the clutch pedal in all of them was light and very easy to use. In regards to the diff issue, it would seem that they are more likely to break in warmer climates. Breaks are most common in GTAs but that might be because there are more of them around than (3.2) Phase 3 GTVs? I thought that this might only be a 6 speeder issue, but I came across a guy in the UK who had broken a diff on a 5 speeder.

Anyway, don't get too focussed on one of the very few negatives, buy one and enjoy!!
The diff doesnt just deliver more reliability, it also delivers a superb drive.

Cheers, Alan.

[alanm]

To whet your appetite...

[t-rev]

Drool!! i did try one that had a new clutch and it was easy to depress but on that one i thought the engine felt a bit tired and the cambelt time was up. I'v heard that the 6 speed is more associated with braking diff's, but as you say it can happen on 5 speeds. The one's i'v looked at have around 115 -160 ks on the clock and have all been phase 1 models. I like the dash on the phase two's but i prefer the front on  p1 and 2's compaired to the p3's.In my search i still havn't found 1 with the q2 diff retro fitted , although i'v seen some GTA's with it on.I'm wondering about the cost of getting a q2 fitted with a new clutch $       

[Jekyll and Hyde]

One observation I would make is that there are a number of (mostly engine) parts on a phase 1 v6 that are specific to that model alone, and are next to impossible to find.  Things like the air intake between the air flow meter and throttle butterfly, very common for them to split, and impossible to find.  The phase 2/3 tends to share most engine parts with all the other 24v v6s (156/147/GT), so makes life a bit easier.  Not to mention they seem to have sold many more of them, so the GTV specific parts for the later cars are also easier to find.

On the flip side, I prefer the throttle pedal response of the cable operated butterfly in the phase 1 to that of most of the electronic butterfly cars, although some are better than others....

[alanm]

The phase 2 is my personal preference also, the deeper grill on the phase 3 was a successful facelift but does not in my opinion look as harmonious as the phase 1/2 grill. The silver centre console and round vents  on phase 3/3 cars gives the interior a lighter, brighter, more 'modern' feel – in my humble opinion.

Q2 is about $1700 - $2000 fitted, clutch kit might be a few hundred on top of that. Monza Motors might be the closest of the club sponsors to you, give them a call, I am sure they could give you an estimate of costs.

The whole diff thing is tricky. I often think that I know too much and would be better off in total ignorance of problems. There are lots of GTV owners I am sure who have never heard of breaking diffs who have thoroughly enjoyed their cars for many years without ever experiencing problems!!

147 and 156 GTA owners perhaps chose their cars more for their performance attributes, and in my experience are more clued up about the diff issues. Huge generalisation, but GTV owners are more concerned with style (and fair enough too). This is perhaps why there are only a few GTVs out there with LSDs.

I hasten to say that the 156 and 147 GTAs are stunning cars to look at as well as to drive.

Cheers,
Al

[t-rev]

Yes sometime ignorance is bliss!,The 147 and 156 GTA's would be great but the GtV's are a bit more in line with my budget at the moment and i find the style to my taste, i'v also seen a few GT's with the 3.2, mmmmm!That cost of a q2 with a new clutch sounds ok depending on the initial cost of the car, one thing to factor in i think.

[alanm]

I think that the 916 series GTVs have hit the very bottom of their depreciation curves and represent very good value. The older, higher kilometer GT prices are not far off the GTVs meaning that you choose between the Bertone body and the Pininfarina. I like the Pininfarina body for its styling panache (whats the Italian equivalent of pinache?).
Al.

[t-rev]

Yes the GTV 's have become very affordable and i can't see them getting that much cheaper, the 156 jts that i owned lost about 3 grand value in one year!Well, most cars lose value over time.. Maybe fuel prices will have a huge effect on their potential future value! According to a few mechanic's that i'v spoken to, the diff change on a GTV does not involve taking the gearbox out, and because of that a clutch change will cost a lot more, doe's that sound right?   

[colcol]

The Q2 diff from what i have been told, is replaced with the gearbox in the car, the clutch on the other hand is a gearbox out job.
Your old car the Alfa 156 4 cylinder, when it needs a new clutch, the gearbox has to be removed, on the series 1 1998-2002 and series 2 2002-2004, the airconditioner has to be degassed and the airconditioning pipes removed, to get the gearbox out, on the series 3 [facelift] 2004-2006, Alfa Romeo run the airconditioning pipes around the offside of the car, for this reason and in the process, made it harder to change the serpentine belt and the timing belt, on the 147 twin spark they ran the pipes on the offside, i read this in the Alfa Romeo workshop manual CD, Colin.

[Jekyll and Hyde]

on the series 1 1998-2002 and series 2 2002-2004, the airconditioner has to be degassed and the airconditioning pipes removed, to get the gearbox out.

Umm... Nope. Absolutely not.