Passenger door water leak

[chispe]

Hello all,
Thanks to the smashing weather recently, it seems my 147 has developed a bit of a leak in the left hand door frame (or maybe it's always been there but it hasn't rained enough to notice).
Water seems to be coming into the cabin about 8 inches from the front door frame along the bottom sill. It then works its way down the trim onto the carpet.
There's no real damage, but obviously I don't want it to continue.
All door seals seem to be in good order. When I open the door, there are no obvious water tracks around the door frame. Just a damp patch at the said 8 inch point on the plastic trim.
Is this a known issue, or just me and I should start attaching newspaper strips to the frame to see where the water is coming in?
Thanks
Spencer

[colcol]

Check to see that the drain holes in the bottom of the doors are not blocked as the water will spill over the door card into the car, just get some not metalic 'probes' and push in the drain holes, you don't want to scratch the paint and expose the metal to any rust.
Also, get some packing crate strap and put it between the door and body and shut the door, to see if the rubber is contacting the door and body and sealing properly.
You could try putting some talcum powder on the seal and close the door and see if it powdering up the door aperture, Colin.

[chispe]

Thanks Col. Will give all the suggestions a go.

[colcol]

Another thought is, if it is not leaking from the door, but there is water on the floor, then the drain hose on the evaporator might be blocked, the evaporator in the airconditioner gets cold and attracts moisture, [like when you take a can of beer out of the fridge], and during the wet season and when its humid, it can get wet, and if your drain hose is blocked, it can overflow onto the floor, just drive somewhere with the airconditioner on, and when you get there, look under the car, and there should be some water under your car, usually on the left hand side, and if the car smells mouldy, then you might have mildew growing in the evaporator....but then it could just be a door leak, Colin.

[chispe]

Hi Col
I had a good look again today and used some packing tape round the seals and it was pretty firm all round until you got to the part just above the wing mirror. This is where the unusual rubber seal on the door goes so not sure how that is supposed to work.
Interested in the AC issue. I run it a fair bit and it's handy in the damp weather to reduce fogging. Where is the evaporator located?
Thanks again.
Spencer.


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[colcol]

The evaporator is located behind the centre of the dash and to the left behind the glove box, but the drain pipe, usually hangs low in the engine bay, when you stop your car, the water will drain onto the ground, they sometimes block up with rubbish and won't drain.
Just try getting someone to hose the left side of the car while you sit in the passenger seat waiting to get wet, to see if its the door leaking, Colin.

[poohbah]

Chispe

Sounds like you had the same issue as me a while back with my 156. Left it at the outdoor airport carpark for a few days and when I got back there was an inch of water in the passenger footwell. Checked all the seals and found no problems.

As it turned out, issue was in line with Col's comment about drain holes. Drain holes weren't actually blocked but while I was away and car was out in the open, Perth had one of biggest downpours in years (couple of inches in an hour or so). Too much for the drain holes to handle so the water overflowed through the door card - so hard that it actually popped the door card off its studs. Just bad luck really. Only advice would be make sure your car is under cover when a big storm is forecast!

[chispe]

Thanks all. I haven't postively resolved this issue, but I also haven't had any water in the footwell for a while, even with some light rain. So I am wondering if it is blocked drains. I will look into this further now it is a bright sunny weekend day and I can have a good ferret around in the daylight.

[colcol]

Just open the door and squirt some water where the door seal meets the window and see if any water flows out of the drain holes, if they are blocked, poke a non metalic probe, [so you don't scratch the paintwork],  in to unblock them or a jet of compressed air and squirt the window again and see if the water flows out of the drain holes, Colin.

[colcol]

I had a look today, there are 3 drain holes in the front and back doors, you may have to pull back a weather seal to see the holes, they are rectangle shape, about 15mm long and 5mm wide, there is mud and dirt round the weather seal, so give it a good clean, give one of the drain holes a blast with water and see if the water runs out the other drain hole, Colin.

[chispe]

Ok, so here is an update.
I came home from a week in NZ when the car wasn't moved. We had some torrential rain while I was away.
There was water on the carpet in the passenger side again.
I have had the door frame lower trim off (exposing the cabling that runs fore and aft), and lifted the carpet and the underlay/insulation is absolutely sodden.  I am trying to dry it out, but am now quite concerned at the ingress of water.
Today I sat in the car, and had my wife pour 9 litres over the door frame at quite a high rate to simulate heavy rain. No noticeable ingress.
At the risk of sounding a bit daft, is the drain hole in the door or some other place? Before doing the water test, I have been upside down under the door and I can see a single rectangular hole in the door trim that could be a drain hole. But not two more. The one I can see seems to be pretty clean. I would be happy to take the door trim off for further investigation.
I do have some further info that might assist. I do have a sunroof. I can't see any leakage around it at all, but I do have a question - where does the water from the sunroof drain to? Is the seal on the 'outside' of the glass supposed to keep the rain out entirely, or is there an 'overhang' so that rain runs off down an internal drain?
I am grasping at straws, but short of getting a workshop manual (there doesn't seem to be a Haynes manual), or putting her up on the stands to see if the compressor drain hose is visible, I am at your mercy or that of my local friendly Alfa specialist.
Regards,
Spencer

[colcol]

Hey Spencer, on the 156 at the bottom of the door there are 3 drain holes, but you have to pull the rubber seal back to see them.
Get a garden hose and get your wife to squirt it all over the outside of the car, not only the passenger door, water can run along panels and build and then after a few minutes start to seep in, as it won't always leak straight away.
The door mirror rubber can perish and leak too.
Open the passenger door and put the window down and pour some water in the aperture between the two rubber seals where the window is and see if it drains out of the 3 drain holes in the door.
Have no sunroof, so can't comment on it, Colin.

[chispe]

Well - that went well. Not!
Took it through the car wash. Putting aside the water flooding through the sunroof into my lap, I did manage to observe the water coming in near the passenger door at the bottom near the hinge area.
On closer inspection (after I changed clothes), the water seems to be coming in along the inside of the A pillar - probably from the bonnet area (?) - as some of the cabling insulation is wet to touch. [I even managed to get some water to come in on the driver's side - same place].
The bonnet area has a number of apertures near the hinge (and a bunch of 'insulation' blocks around it that you can take out), but I am not sure which (if any) are relevant until I remove the glove box and do another rain test (I'll take some buckets with me next time).
So yes I still love my Alfa. No, I don't love that the sunroof is incapable of dealing with a car wash, but given I mostly hand wash my car wash it's not a practical inconvenience.
Further suggestions welcome. Just make sure they include washing instructions
Spencer

[colcol]

Put some packing crate tape between the door and the guard and close the door and see if the weather seal is actually making contact with the door and frame, if its a bit loose, then the seal has lost its shape and needs to be replaced.
Get your wife to hose the passenger door and then around the front, so you can workout where the water is coming in.
Its not the rubber grommet on the mirror that leaking?, take off the mirror and see if the grommet has perished or if it is missing, Colin.

[chispe]

And so hopefully the final instalment.
I did a full-on hose test aroudn the door, then higher to include the windscreen seals, and no leaks whatsoever.
So putting on a brave face and with towels in hand, I had the sunroof sprayed (not directly, just enough 'shower' to simulate a heavy rainstorm without any direct pressure).
Well, that was enough and the water was soon pooling into the foot well (all the lining and insulation removed beforehand). Having brough a halt to the deluge, I followed the water up the inside of the door seal, and noticed that it was running down from the lining of the door frame. Having previously eexcluded a leak down this way due to a lack of any noticeable moisture, I removed the lower trim (closest to the dash) and  found that it was rigid inside, and that it provided a great channel for water to run down, without making the fabric wet. From there, it simply ran down the door seal to where I noticed it coming in.
So I concluded that this was probably overflow from the sunroof drains.
On another website for the 156 I found a discussion about drains with a diagram (stupidly I have closed the tab without noting the location to share) to access them. Finding my bravery I decided it couldn't be that hard, so having removed both windscreen wipers, I proceeded to remove the plastic tray/trim over the wiper motor etc. A note for anyone else - once you remove all the crews (and some are star-headed Torx screws) there are some 'special' Alfa fastners that hold the plastic in place. There must be a special removal tool, but I managed to get the things off only breaking a couple that I reglued.
Under the trim I found the exit for the two sunroof drains. Both were completely blocked with crud, and the 'anti-return' valves on the end were pointless. 
So having cleaned out the tubes, and having blown them through with an air pump, I have now reassembled the car, and will be testing it later on today when my trusty hose assistant returns.
Hopefully there will be nothing after this one and all will have been a success.
Thanks to all for your suggestions.
Spencer