Stripped sump plug so it leaks! Best options?

[Thevak]

I have had the car fro. 140 k and regularly change oil. However over the years it has been over tightened and the threads have been gradually stripping. This oil change the result is terminal now? What is the alternative to a sump pan replacement? Is sump pan replacement an easy job and how costly? Is their a way of threading an oversized plug? What is the size and thread on the plug? Cheers Anthony

[colcol]

Bugger!, i bet this has never happened before, i have replaced the sump on my JTS and i had to take long service leave to do it.
I f i was you i would get a recoil set and tap the sump oversize and put a recoil in it, then you can use the standard oil sump plug, the recoil kit is 18mm diameter - 1,5 pitch, recoil part number 38181, it is quite easy to do, if you haven't done it before, have a look on youtube.
The alternate is to get an oversize sump plug and tap it out to 19mm or 3/4 inch, which is the next size up, but you would have to buy an expensive tap, most likely $100?, if you could get one quickly.
The recoil kit is most likely $100-$150? and is easily available at engineering supply or bearing supply outlets.
If you decide to recoil the sump, get a new sump plug, as the threads might be damaged and get a new Dowty seal for the sump plug as well.
Seriously, how many of us have never stripped a thread before?, or have tightened a thread up that had already been overtightened and you have broken the camels back, Colin.

[Thevak]

This is the first time I have been left with a stripped thread that is not an easy fix. Both methods are expensive unless ... Does some one out their have a suitable tapping tool to lend for a small fee? Thanks Col for the suggestion. See you at Sandown!

[colcol]

To remove the sump in one of these is a big job, and you need about $100 worth of special tools, very long series ribe sockets and about $40 worth of the Genuine Alfa Romeo sump gasket sealer.
The tools and sealer have to come from the UK and take a few weeks, i used the Genuine sealer as i didn't want to do the job twice with some unknown sealer that might leak.
The sump doesn't have a gasket, it is glued onto the block with the Genuine sealer.
The sump is also hard to get off, as it is glued there, so i had to get it moving by making up a slide hammer to move the sump down, so i could get a scraper between the sump and the block.
Thats after you remove all the gearbox mounts and exhaust to get the sump out.
Putting it back is even more difficult.
Recoil / Helicoil the sump plug thread, lots easier, Colin.

[Cool Jesus]

As Col correctly suggests. Your best option is the helicoil repair. If you search mobile thread repair you may find a local repairer to come to you which may be better value than purchasing the tools and kits for a once in a blue moon usage?

[four90s]

Anthony,

I've got a second hand sump with good thread if you are interested. My sump had taken a hit by a po, but I've fixed it with sealers and a replacement sump plug off a Mercedes fitted into a 1/2" bsp fitting.

I was going to replace the sump, but don't need to now. $125 plus shipping if you are interested.

Cheers
Steve
Adelaide

[jazig.k]

Just in case anyone isn't aware, Heli-coils don't seal. If we have a pump with a tapped hole into a wet area the only fix is going to the next size.

Everyone needs to stop over tightening all oil plugs. New copper washer every time you change the oil and use a sealant on the threads like Loctite 567 or 577. The white one doesn't harden, the yellow one hardens but I forget which is which. They are also designed to 'breakdown' in fluids and not block anything up unlike tape.

I have seen 567 applied to a tapered plug and only finger tight in a pump pressure test up to 150PSI straight away without leaking over the hour. Pretty sure it will hold sump pressure...

[Thevak]

Anthony,

I've got a second hand sump with good thread if you are interested. My sump had taken a hit by a po, but I've fixed it with sealers and a replacement sump plug off a Mercedes fitted into a 1/2" bsp fitting.

I was going to replace the sump, but don't need to now. $125 plus shipping if you are interested.

Cheers
Steve
Adelaide

Thanks for the offer but the option requires major removal and replace and could lead to other problems and added costs.

Cheers Anthony

[colcol]

The thread on the 147 is 18mm - 1.5 pitch, it is a straight thread and all the sealing is done with the Dowty washer or Bonded washer as some people call them.
If you want to seal the sump with a tapered thread, then use B.S.P., [British Standard Pipe], which is another option or N.P.T. [National Pipe Thread], these are tapered threads that don't use a seal or shoulder to seal, but do up on a taper.
The 33 and Suds have a tapered thread on their sump, but have a steel thread in the sump.
Some people use teflon tape on tapered sump threads for better sealing, but i prefer to keep the tape away from the sump, as it could get into the engine sump.
Suds and 33's weep a few drops from the sump plug, but nothing to worry about.
If you decide to go down the recoil / helicoil road, use lots of grease on the tap, to stop any aluminium swarf getting in the sump, Colin.

[Domenic]

We stock both the standard and an oversize sump plugs for this very reason, they even come with the correct dowdy washer, not a standard copper one.

People always seem to strip the standard thread.

You will need to go up a size from M18 to M20, but an Alfa mechanic will have the right tools to do it for you.

[colcol]

You will be able to get a 20 mm tap off ebay for about $20 or so, they come from China and are not top quality, but ok for a one off repair job on aluminium.
Go to Italian Automotive Spares in Brunswick and buy a 20 mm oversize sump drain plug replacement and measure the pitch, that is the distance from one thread to the next, and buy a tap.
There are 3 types of taps, taper for starting, intermediate for halfway down the threaded hole and plug or bottoming for threading to the bottom of the hole, you will need to buy the taper or starting tap.
You will need a tap wrench for better control of tap or at a pinch you could carefully use a shifter.
You could take it to an Alfa Romeo Mechanic, but you would have to have the car towed there.
Use lots of grease to hold any swarf and when finished, tip oil in motor to flush out all stray aluminium chips in sump, strain oil and pour through motor a few times to flush out any chips.
When all fixed, remember to use torque wrench for tightening sump plug in aluminium sump, just like i am going to start doing, Colin.

[Thevak]

Doing a temp fix using Locktite and new dowdy washer ( from PIRtEk for $2.60!, no help from Repco,Supercheap and Autobahn). This should allow me get to an Alfa mechanic to do the repair necessary.

[colcol]

Bearing supply places also sell bonded washers/Dowty washers as well.
You can purchase extremely dodgy looking get you home sump plugs off ebay that look like those screws you hang pictures off walls, that is a long screw with a pair of wings that open up when inserted in the sump, and when you tighten the screw up the wings pull down on the inside of the sump and seal the big rubber washer on the outside of the sump, very unprofessional, in my opinion.
Everyone knows you just use a small branch of a nearby tree to seal a stripped or lost sump plug.
Just remember to use the right type of tree branch that is oil tolerant, and please, for Alfa Romeo's use only metric trees as imperial tree branches are only for the older type cars, Colin.

[Craig_m67]

To remove the sump in one of these is a big job, and you need about $100 worth of special tools, very long series ribe sockets and about $40 worth of the Genuine Alfa Romeo sump gasket sealer.
The tools and sealer have to come from the UK and take a few weeks, i used the Genuine sealer as i didn't want to do the job twice with some unknown sealer that might leak.
The sump doesn't have a gasket, it is glued onto the block with the Genuine sealer.
The sump is also hard to get off, as it is glued there, so i had to get it moving by making up a slide hammer to move the sump down, so i could get a scraper between the sump and the block.
Thats after you remove all the gearbox mounts and exhaust to get the sump out.
Putting it back is even more difficult.
Recoil / Helicoil the sump plug thread, lots easier, Colin.

It's still just a sump.
I removed mine (admittedly JTD) fairly easily in a morning (no long service req.)
I bought ribe hex keys from Bursons and used some black sealant they recommended - hasn't leaked.

Do you really need to move gearbox mounts etc?
I'd grab a good second hand one from a wrecker and get dirty.

[colcol]

I did mine following the instructions from my workshop manual, you have to remove the front exhaust, as it goes under the sump, so its in the way.
The rear gearbox mounts have to be removed as well.
Getting it out is the easy part.
Without a sump on it i left it there for 2 weeks to let all the oil run out of the engine, as i didn't want any oil getting on the sump - engine mounting faces.
I tried to buy the extra long 3/8 inch drive ribe sockets from every where in Australia, but no luck, Totally Alfa in the UK had the correct tools so i went with that, they were very long and they still fouled on engine bits, so i had to grind them down to fit.
You need sealant that will stay tacky for about half an hour while you assemble on the engine, i don't know how long the non genuine stay tacky for, but i saw a four bond brand sealant at Repco and it was $60 compared to the genuine $40.
Now the fun bit, you loosen the oil pump off, so it drops down, so the pump will fit into the sump.
Put the sealant on the engine mounting face, then on the engine sump.
Jack up the engine / gearbox so you can put the sump on, as there are bits in the way when its just sitting there.
With sump about 50mm or so away from being fitted, put fingers in between sump pan and engine and tighten up oil pump bolts.
Then smoothen out sealant that you have messed up and start putting in bolts, using long series ribe sockets.
Jack up/down engine to gain access to sump bolts, as its impossible to tighten some with the engine up or down.
Hope that you have done a good job or you will do it all again.
In the time i did that i could do at least 5 Sud / 33 engine sumps.
I could helicoil / recoil 20 sumps in the time it took to change the sump.
One of the most difficult jobs i have ever done, Colin.