An interesting comment from an RACV tech re: "jump starting" Alfas

[blueblood1995]

Hi All

I had the need to make a call to RACV Roadside Assist this morning for another car I own.
My Alfa 159 is linked to my membership but when the tech arrived he mentioned that RACV are instructed not to jump start Alfas post 1990 due to potential issues with "frying" the electrics.
I was very surprised and also concerned as I had an RACV "jump" the Alfa about 8 weeks ago.
He also mentioned that post '90 Alfas were the only car that RACV were not allowed to touch. Weird!

Can anyone add anything to these comments?

Cheers
JAMES

[blueblood1995]

OK...

Rang dealer and they have no idea why RACV would make such an exception although they did say that only 2 weeks ago they had a similar comment from a customer.
Person I spoke with in Alfa service said no issues exist as far as they are aware. They do it all the time. No special precautions required, i.e. standard stuff - remove key from ignition, take care applying leads to battery terminals. Service did say often a good idea to leave lights on when "jumping". if an event does happen then the lighting circuit will fry first (??)

Rang RACV and they said this policy exists due to "issues" with "alarms and ECUs" on Alfas. Service consultant couldn't elaborate but has requested someone call me to discuss further. Unsure if this is recent or not.

I asked if I could get a discount on my Roadside Assist fee and of course the reply was no! Most call outs for Assist I would have thought would be related to battery issues. So battery replacement or towing the only option?

Sounds like some fried ECUs may have cost RACV some money!

Cheers
JB

[blueblood1995]

Can anyone recommend a quality battery charger for home use? Might invest in one now if not ridiculously expensive. That or take better care!

[David Mills]

Try here

http://www.ctekbatterychargers.com.au

I have three of these permanently hooked up to my "occasional use cars".  You probably need only the 4 amp or thereabouts

[blueblood1995]

Great thanks David.

[festy]

Service did say often a good idea to leave lights on when "jumping". if an event does happen then the lighting circuit will fry first (??)

More to do with the light globes being nice big absorbers of power spikes.
It's more relevent to the car that's doing the jump starting than the jump-startee, if you've got one car with a dead flat battery hooked up to a car with a fully charged battery, the flat battery charges as fast as the jumper leads will allow and the running car's alternator boosts it's output to maximum to try and keep up.
If you disconnect the jumper leads as soon as the other car has started, the load is suddenly removed and the jump starter's alternator is still pumping huge amounts of power into a circuit but now with no load. This can result in a possibly ECU-frying power surge through the starter's car (not the startee's).

With your headlights on (or at least parkers), the globes should be enough of a load to reduce the risk of damage.
It's a good idea to leave the jumper leads connected for a few minutes while both engines are running, the more charge that goes into the flat battery the less risk there is of a sudden disconnect.   

Rang RACV and they said this policy exists due to "issues" with "alarms and ECUs" on Alfas. Service consultant couldn't elaborate but has requested someone call me to discuss further. Unsure if this is recent or not.

Ahh, Alfa Code immobilisers can be problematic after a flat battery, maybe it's not the jump starting that has bitten RACV but people claiming "it was working fine *before* you jump started me", when in reality it was the flat battery that caused the problem?

[blueblood1995]

Ok makes sense festy. Thanks for the update.
Interesting point re: immobilisers. Is there a simple method to test if your immobiliser is working as designed? If your central locking works does this mean your immobiliser is in good health? Anything else?
Thanks 

[festy]

I've never owned a post-90 (or even post-80) Alfa so I'm no expert on the Alfa Code immobilisers, but the easiest way to test it is to start the engine. If it starts, your immobiliser is working
(The immobiliser has nothing to do with your alarm, it's only function is to not let the engine start).

The car's ECU will refuse to run the engine until it's given the "all clear" signal from a seperate box that reads the identifier code from the key transponder.
The ECU and the immobiliser box are "paired" (eg. they share a secret code between them), so if one of them forgets the secret then they can't talk to each other until they are reset.
This isn't unique to Alfas, I know that P38a range rovers are notorious for this sort of thing even without flat batteries.

This site has some more information on Alfa's immobiliser systems, I see it also mentions voltage spikes from jumpstarts triggering the issue, so sounds like it's not just flat batteries that cause problems.

From RACV's point of view, say they get called out to a car park where an Alfa owner has a flat battery. They try to jumpstart the car, but the immobiliser refuses to talk to the ECU so the engine won't start.
The owner blames RACV, because obviously it was working fine this morning when they drove into the carpark so it must have been something they did that broke it.
I can understand if that happened a few times why they'd put a blanket ban on them
I wouldn't think a 159 would be affected though? Surely they got the bugs out of the system by then?

[As the day goes]

I have jumped started my 159. No problems.  So is one now needing to carry around a battery pack? That is what the Racv now use right rather than using a traditional jump start?

Also if they replace the battery do they know that one needs to keep it disconnected for 20 minutes to prevent an airbag malfunction?

[blueblood1995]

From what I've learnt they offer you a new battery! How about that!
So a perfectly healthy battery that has lost its charge and can be restored via a jump start or battery charge is a throwaway.
I asked RACV if I get a discount on my Basic Roadside Assist package... Computer said no!
I've bought a Ctek unit anyway for another car but in answer to your question, yes it sounds like all Alfa owners with +90s vehicles are expected to carry around their own chargers.
I'm still not convinced that this is 100% RACV policy. Often you ask two different people and get two different answers. The most confusing aspect of all this is that I had RACV charge battery approx 10 weeks as noted in original post. Must be a very recently adopted policy ir the tech just forgot!

[blueblood1995]

You can also add Mercedes with an IR key (??) to the list according to RACV!
Soon enough there'll be no need to have Roadside Assist...

[Danz]

If it starts, your immobiliser is working ...The car's ECU will refuse to run the engine until it's given the "all clear" signal from a seperate box that reads the identifier code from the key transponder.
The ECU and the immobiliser box are "paired" (eg. they share a secret code between them), so if one of them forgets the secret then they can't talk to each other until they are reset.
This isn't unique to Alfas, I know that P38a range rovers are notorious for this sort of thing even without flat batteries.

This site has some more information on Alfa's immobiliser systems, I see it also mentions voltage spikes from jumpstarts triggering the issue, so sounds like it's not just flat batteries that cause problems.

I've been having an issue with the immobiliser on my 147 recently, getting the immobiliser error, engine turns over but car won't start.

I have two keys, both open the doors and I've had the batteries checked in both keys and was told they were good.

One key seems to start the car (more frequently than the other) but I now find myself driving around with both keys on me, if one fails I've still managed to start the car by simply swapping them over.  It worries me that one day I might get stuck when both keys fail.

I haven't tried to jump start the car and the battery is good -

Should I fork out for new keys, or get the immobiliser looked at?

[As the day goes]

Okay, taking some time but thought I would ask RACV on Twitter on their policy of jump starting Alfas. Well they wont jump start any Alfa post 2000 due to the potential of damaging the ECU: "This is due to electrics being more sensitive to jump starting & us having to then pay for repairs as a result"

There you have it.   

Have asked Allianz what their policy is.  Will let you know.

[As the day goes]

Well finally got a response from Allianz to my specific question of whether they will jump start my 159 and late model Alfas.  Yes they do in the first instance. 

Because AAMI is now also offering road side assist, I asked them the same question.  They said I have to actually speak to their road side assist people. May get around to do this.

At this stage, chalk one up for Allianz.

[festy]

Should I fork out for new keys, or get the immobiliser looked at?

From your description, I'd be looking at the immobiliser antenna to start with. Not sure what kind of antenna the 147s use, but often it's a wire loop around the ignition lock.