considering 156 sportswagon

[Divano Veloce]

Hi all,

my wife and i are looking to replace our trusty VW Polo tdi as it seems to have shrunk as our family grew. Sofar we have been looking at other VAG makes such as Tiguan, Passat, Octavia and the Alfa 159 as a tease.

There doesnt seem to be the 159 i would want to pay the asking price for (2.4JTD manual SW in black with tan interior). Also the JTD has crappy mileage (but 400NM!). So i had a look at manual 156 Sportswagons and theres a couple for sale at the moment. THe difference in cost between VAG diesels and a 156 would work out pretty even over the life of the car given the difference in fuel economy(we've done about 50k/year for 3 years in the Polo).

So should we get a 156 sportswagon manual? whats to look for, TS or JTS? early, late etc.... informed and subjective opinion welcome.

[Divano Veloce]

And we plan to to keep the car for at least 5 years and have a total of 3 children, mostly highway driving and will need to install a towbar.

What is the actual fuel consumption? Do they have to use premium? Are they reliable? when are major services due?

Are they great cars??? I've not yet driven a modern alfa.

[colcol]

Get a 156 manual, with low klms, the JTS is the later one 2002 - 2006, the twin spark is the earlier motor.
The JTS has curtain airbags, stability control and panic brake assist and climate control airconditioning.
The Twin spark and JTS have to have their cambelts done at 3 years - 50,000 - 60,000 klms, the ts uses 10 - 40 fully synthetic oil, the JTS uses 10 - 60 fully synthetic as well.
They both  suffer from rattly suspension, with the rattles starting at about 100,000klms, look for top control arms and worn roll bar mounts, at about this time you will need to look at Lambda Sensors to be replaced, 2 in the TS and 4 in the JTS.
You could always consider a V-6 with a proper automatic, but fuel use is heavier.
The plastic water manifolds in the JTS can leak as well, the TS had a proper alloy water manifold.
Look for a good service record and get it checked out by an Alfa Romeo Service Provider, as they know where the skeletons are, the RACV and such are better at looking at normal cars, Colin.

[Craig_m67]

What's your budget?

I have a manual '03 156 1.9JTD Sportwagon.
Nero Metallico (AR846/a) over black (dark grey?) leather.
Personal import we brought home from the UK 2009.
All wishbones and bushes done, new rad & thermostat, intake boost hoses and clutch.
Recent new Bilstien B6 all round with original 17" GTA speedlines, recent new battery.
I've maintained this car myself and trust it to go anywhere, anytime... quickly

It's a well loved family car. Has lived outside both here and in London so has a few light parking scrapes etc.  Has done a lazy lap of the Nurburgring with two children under three.

Averages 800-1000klms per tank regardless of how you drive it. Very flexible and quick being a manual. It's also pre DMF so the only potential issues are EGR although to date i have had none. I have a new spare EGR, MAF, MAP, Rad, waterpump etc just in case along with all belts, idlers, tensioners etc for the next service.

[Divano Veloce]

thanks craig, so did they didnt sell the diesel 156 here at all? How big is the tank (for l/100 calc purposes). How many kms has it done? how did you go with compliance for aust? is the 1.9 motor the same as the 159 (except no dpf)?

I'll pm you regarding budget

[colcol]

At the time of the 156, the diesel fuel in Australia was truck diesel only and wasn't really suitable for cars, then a few years ago, they changed the fuel regulations on diesels, and it was more refined and suitable for cars, thats about the time Alfa Romeo bought in the 1.9 in the 159 and 147, Colin.

[Craig_m67]

Same 50 litre tank as all 156... takes 56 litres
Indicates 3-4L/100ks on the freeway, 5-8L/100ks around town.
Brisbane to Sydney on a tank
Compliance was easy as apart from the childseat mounts on the rear folding seat it's identical.
I've fitted an Australian leather interior so the correct approved mounts are now in the car.
Shannon's will insure it (personal import)
It's just about to hit 120K Miles or 200K km

No 156 diesels were imported into Australia. From memory, this engine (unlike the later JTDm in the 147, 159 etc) is the single cam version and is not an interference engine so if the belt breaks.. just put on a new one (as opposed to changing lifters in the JTDm). It's the same 1.9 derv then used by SAAB, GM, etc..

Plenty of grunt, never mapped although every now and again I consider sending the ECU back to the UK as they're pretty well developed now.  Oh, I've a complete set of 330Brembos and uprights etc for the front, haven't gotten around to putting them on yet.  Car just isn't used very much at the moment (last 18 moths or so) as we live right in the City.

http://youtu.be/quf8r2boy5E

I'm open to offers, however I would expect more than the run of the mill JTS. I'm in no hurry to sell as its a very useful, practical and well maintained car - I just don't use it much.

[Divano Veloce]

I should mention, we recently bought a 75TS as our second car which still has a propshaft vibration issue; if we buy another alfa and it has ANY issues my wife will punch me.

[poohbah]

Did they sell any V6 156 sportwagons here? If so, I reckon that would be your safest bet, especially if you are planning to do any towing.

[Craig_m67]

No.

One or two have been built though, fairly straight forward swap
Still less torques than the JTD

[Divano Veloce]

thanks Col for your knowledge on what to look for. I am looking at some JTS manual wagons this week, all should have had 2 cambelts done by now so i will look for records of this. How do i tell if lambda sensors have failed? Will the cars still drive?

If a car has a cambelt thats older than 3 years or 60,000kms should i not drive it from sydney to melbourne?

where do i go online to get service items (cambelts, waterpumps, plugs filters etc...)?

[colcol]

The Lambda sensors progressively get worse, and the car will stumble off at the lights, with a 'Motor Control Failure' warning coming up.
When you take it to an Alfa Romeo Specialist, to get it looked over, get them to connect a scanner up to see if there are any trouble codes present.
If the car has more than 60,000klms on it or its older than 3 years, you are getting into the danger zone, its up to you, i know of a bloke with a twin spark who had a 10 year old cam belt, [the original], and he kept driving it until he had it serviced, how lucky do you feel?
The coil packs will most likely start to fail about this time too, the car will run on 3 cylinders and you will get the 'Motor Control Failure' light.
You could try Italian Automotive Spares in Brunswick, they have a good knowledge of parts, and one of them drives a 156, so that means he is a good bloke, [03] 9036 1606, Colin.

[poohbah]

Further to Col's advice about the belts, its really not worth the risk. If belt is due for a change but you take a chance and it goes, your motor will be cactus and cost as much as the car to replace. And I especially wouldn't risk it on a long haul between capitals - if ti does go, you'll just be stuck in the middle of nowhere, far far away from your nearest Alfa expert...

[colcol]

This is a real tricky question, If you purchased a car in Melbourne or Sydney, would you drive it home to Castlemaine?, if you were planning to do the timing belt yourself, you may risk it and drive it there, but if you were going to get a Alfa Service Provider to do it, you would just get it done properly and drive it back home.
When mine is coming up to its timing belt change, you get a bit nervous, not revving it too hard, and when its done, you feel a whole lot better.
The timing belt also has a balance belt to run the 2 balance shafts, if this belt breaks, it will tangle up with the engine timing belt, and cause a big bang....followed by a long silence.
The water pump is part of the timing belt system and this should be changed at every second belt change.
The tensioners should be changed every 3 years as well, Colin.

[Divano Veloce]

thanks guys.

we're looking at a 159 2.4JTD and a couple of 156 JTS SW selespeeds tomorrow. I can handle frequent timing belt changes myself but the JTD we're looking at has had a clutch and dual mass flywheel replaced with less than 100k on the clock.... Thats scary! We'll clock up that in 2 years.

It would be good to get a 156 and a 159 side by side to compare internal dimensions. Any experience here?