broken radiator bracket V6 2002-driveway damage

[cc]

Hi
In re attaching my front bumper Ive found a problem that may be quite common on V6 156's that have had the front underside of the vehicle grounded. As happens on a steepish driveway. It can cause some unexpected damage affecting the attachment of the radiator to the vehicle.!!

The radiator with its attached fans sits into a long (92cm) pressed steel bracket that extends underneath the length (72cm) of the radiator.
Attaching at each end of the radiator bracket are two pressed steel side brackets that sit vertical up the side of the radiator and are then attached to the chassis rails. At their base they each have 2 sturdy 13mm bolts attaching them to the 92cm radiator bracket (1/2 of mine were loose).

So the radiator sits suspended in a cradle..

At the top, the side brackets attach to the inside of the chassis rail by 4 tack welds which are hidden, and a blob of weld at the top, see pic of weld. This blob was v poorly welded at the factory and had broken away, as had the 4 internal tack welds! Its still sitting in approx the correct position against the chassis rail as its still bolted to the bottom radiator bracket. Once unbolted it fell away..

   So the drivers side of the radiator was supported not by the side bracket welded to the chassis rail but by the pressed steel bonnet rail its also bolted to (belts and braces) and the end of the front wing to which the bonnet rail is bolted. Not how its meant to be supported. (the bonnet rail was also damaged in its struts by the grounding) The bonnet rail runs across the front of the car and is what the bonnet latch is fixed on.
On the passenger side the blob weld of the vertical side bracket onto the chassis was much better and ok, but the 4 tack welds had seperated from the chassis rail.

To fix it Im going to tack weld the side brackets back on. If I dont the radiator will be incorrectly supported and be sitting lower with more chance of damage on driveways (could get messy). Ive already sourced a replacement 92cm radiator bracket ($40 2nd H) as the original was too badly bent.. The replacement was also bent but have been able to bend back into reasonable shape.

Checking your radiator side bracket welds is easy, from below give the vertical brackets some gentle side ways force by wiggling with your hand; shouldnt move more than 1mm. Also feel around the perimeter of the base of the 92cm radiator bracket for rough grinds from grounding.

Was thinking why alfa designed it this way.. As the side bracket welds are susceptible to vertical and sideways forces that are directed into the chassis rail when the front of the car is grounded.
The design of the welds and their positions may be designed to fail so excess force isnt transfered to the chassis rail. Which means some repair work but not to the chassis rail when the inevitable? driveway grounding occours. cheers.

Update 3/5/15
After some more reading of posts a Monza comes with a sports pack3 which among other things lowers the cars suspension so its more understandable that its prone to driveway grounding.

Dont think I will take it too far off the beaten track tho.
Travelling in a VL commodore  one night  I had to drive over a dead kangaroo between Coolgardie and Kambalda. The oncoming road train blinded me to the roo and with the family on board had to grip the wheel and hope for the best. Got thru it ok!, it would have been collected in the radiator of the Monza tho.

[poohbah]

Actually, I have just noticed a widening panel gap on the passenger side of the front bumper of my V6.

Its completely flush with front wing panel on drivers side, but the gap is about 3-4mm on the passenger side directly beneath the headlamp. Any pointers to where I should look to tighten things up? I suspect the gap is the result of curb/speedbump contact.

[Craig_m67]

There are three 6mm torx head screw/bolt things that go through the bumper into the wing ie. Up. Access from underneath, easier with the wheel, liner, sump protector etc off.. Or unscrew and move the radiator overflow container... or train a small child with long spindly arms.

I've never seen a blob of weld like that in a 156 front end, perhaps it's a previous repair?

[cc]

Funnily enough Ive got a similar panel gap, same location.
The fastener location for the bumper to the panel, at the end of the panel, closest to the headlight where the gap is greatest. Isnt the standard hole for the torx fastener used in the other two torx fasteners on that side. Its a square hole.. A previous owner had put in a Bunnings Zenith bolt! and it was loose ish. So I dont think the gap is due to grounding.
Would be interested what other original 2002 cars have here.. A pic? would be good.

On the drivers side panel to bumper wing its the 3 standard torx fasteners. The car has had 5 of the torx bumpers fasteners missing or substituted..

To access the front torx fastener passenger side and address the gap. Another option is removing the headlight.

If you dont want to take the wheels & wheel well liners off and you have long arms! It can be done on the driver side by moving the washer bottle off its mounts, taking one of the horns off, removing the foglight with its housing and putting your arm through the fog light hole in the bumper. Using a 10cm ratchet drive & a short torx bit.
Picture a vet with his arm inserted up to his armpit in a cow and your heading in the right direction!

I have wondered if the blob weld is original too and was going to check it out on another car when I got the chance. The patina under the bonnet looks original, no overspray , wrinkles etc and the service record is pretty good. The four tack welds also look original.
The blob weld may be hand done before the car goes onto the robot welding part of the assembly line.

[poohbah]

Cheers guys, I will have a fiddle about when I get time on the weekend. Strangely, there doesn't seem to be any play - it feels quite stiff and doesn't easily lift to close the gap.

[cc]

attached pic shows the 4 spot welds (and remnants of top blob of weld) that attach the radiator bracket to the chassis rail.
Note bright area where the bracket was moving and polishing against the chassis rail after the  welds broke. Pic is on its side.

[bazzbazz]

When I acquired Ruby, the previous "Rally Rabbit" that had owned her must had hit one of those council speed bumps ( the ones to stop "hoons") at around 80kmh +, as he had clean sheared all 4 spot welds on BOTH sides of the radiator tray mounts!!!

Instead of removing half the car to re-weld them, I drilled holes through the spot welds, trough both the brackets and the mating side of the chassis rail. through these I bolted it all back together with 4 high tensile bolts & nuts each side. Rock solid to this day!

And like you guys, I too have the left side gap, it appears ALL alfa 156s have the most forward left fitting as a square hole and a "captive nut" clipped into the square hole and a standard bolt going through it. And NO, I haven't been able to find out WHY IN GODS NAME didn't they have 3 torxs fittings like the drivers side, there is NO physical reason for it. I have 3 alfa 156s, 1990 - 2001 and they are all the same!!

The gap is usually caused by the head of the bolt being smaller than the big flat ones in the torx fittings, thusly it tried to pull itself trough the bumper, coning the hole in the bumper that it fits through, resulting in the gap.

I find that no matter how much you tighten it, the gap remains.



Baz

[cc]

Similar coning has happened on this cars bumper. Have flattened the coning by clamping when off the vehicle. See pic.
Have also used 32mm (1 1/4")washers above the flange of the steel panel and below the plastic flange of the bumper.
Unfortunately havent been able to do a final tightening as cant get the spanners on it! Should have done it before re installing the headlight.. So still have a slight panel gap.
The washers also came in handy with the 3 torx screws attaching the bumper to the lower radiator support. The washer needs to have an internal diameter of 10mm also so it sits flush on the screw. See pic of washer and torx with a washer with 7mm internal diameter showing the washer sitting NOT flush the head of the screw see pic.

[poohbah]

I find that no matter how much you tighten it, the gap remains.

Cheers Baz, you may have saved me from an afternoon of fruitless swearing!

[bazzbazz]

CC, clamping alone will only temporarily remove the cone. Once refitted it will reform quickly.

Whilst clamped, you need to apply heat with a hot air gun to slightly soften the area, then allow
to completely cool before removing the clamps. This removes the "Memory" from the composite
plastic of the bumper. (I also Plasti-Weld too)   

Sorry if you have already fitted it, and if you have, you've used a REALLY big washer 

Baz

[cc]

it is a whopper washer! and when in, sits on and fills the flange of the panel. May yet replace the washer with a strap of metal, similar in shape to a school ruler and have the 3 torx screws pass thru it.
The cars off to the garage for its safety inspection tomorrow. Found one that charges only the $$ recommended by Qld Transport. About $70.. other garages add on $20 for an environmental charge! The CTP was $176.3. Interestingly almost  all garages have little experience with the 156.
On a recent trip Bris Syd Bris with family in a Citroen C3, saw only four. None on the h/way.One on a trailer! on Pennant hills road.
Wanting to keep the car as original as possible (including stone chips!). Am intending on returning the under radiator support to original shape and re fitting. Hopefully in a years time along with removing engine and front suspension as part of a major overhaul. Having to remove/withdraw the engine from below will be interesting. Does anyone have the dimensions of the factory engine/gearbox support/cradle?
Am anticipating a knock back on the safety inspection as the drivers side locating lug at the base of the plastic side tank of the radiator is missing, probably broken off when the  radiator was grounded. Have priced a 2nd hand unit for $80. $300 new. Asked some radiator shops on repairing the lug, was advised not possible. Currently its held in place by a small bolt & nut installed by previous owner. Will replace damaged side tank in the long term.
Interestingly the 2 plastic lugs on the air filter box had also been broken off. Replaced with a 2nd hand box with identical serial numbers on the box.