164 'Restoration'

[gtv6sv]

Great car man!!! I still miss my 164Q to this day!  A mean machine!
Like the others have mentioned,  be sure to change all rubbers and belts! Check through all the suspension,  they are a very fine balanced car,  get it all right and I can assure they are more comfortable and rewarding to drive than a new Mercedes. (Personal experience,  maybe biased:-p? )
Some weak spots on these are the bonnet hinges and what they are notorious for, are the mounting points where the boot hinges mount on the body.  I'd highly recommend to reinforce this area.

I know early internal door hinges are weak, I heard post '92 models had better designed ones but!
Another item would be the front demister plastic panel on the dash, these are also notorious for cracking, if yours is good, take very good care of it and try keep it out of the sun!

Great stuff man, great to see there are younger Alfisti than myself or there:-) any questions give any one of us a yell!

[V AR 164]

Hey again,

Quick question: Is changing the timing belt on these cars easy or hard? I have looked at other forums with instructions but one says I need to lower the engine? I am off school for another week and want to attempt it, should I? If so, how would I go about it?
I have a new timing belt, water pump and belt tensioner bearing.

I also have workshop manuals explaining how to change the timing belt but it seems a bit to complicated as you need to remove valve covers etc.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks, Andrew.

[stustustu123]

Hi Andrew,

Good question as it's a job you want to make sure is done on time (or before) and to spec. Otherwise, well I'm sure you know what can happen!

You'll probably find there are already some marks on the cam pulleys from previous cambelt changes, but the first time you perform the task on the car yourself it's good to remove the cam covers to check the pulley marks are actually correct. This is the most tedious bit of the job IMHO, but once you've verified the marks are in the right position you won't need to do this on the next cambelt change.

The thing that I found helped me a LOT is a PDF document on Alfabb.com (in the 164 section) that someone has drawn up that you can print out (sorry I don't have a link).  You use it to align the pulley markings (& check the match the camshaft markings) and thus verify cams are in exactly correct position (& haven't moved) when fitting the belt.

It's not as hard as it sounds, but first time around I certainly took my time to verify everything was cleaned & there were no oil leaks in the vicinity of the belt, particularly from the oil fed tensioner.

And check, and then check again that it all lines up after fitting the new belt - make sure you can turn the engine over a few cycles and everything stays lined up and there is certainly no slack in the belt at any stage of the cycle.

Good luck, let us know how it goes. It's very satisfying to do it yourself - certainly not that hard provided you check thoroughly as you go.

[V AR 164]

Thanks for the info stu, I believe this is the template? http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/attachments/164-168-1991-1995/66906d1179330802-cam-timing-cam-timing.pdf

Really considering if I should go ahead with doing it. Would anyone be able to provide basic steps in what to do? I've already read the alfabb 164 timing belt replacement thread and have a basic understanding on what to do. I just would like another reference.

Thanks, Andrew.

[stustustu123]

Hi Andrew,

Yep that's the template! Tape it to a bit of cardboard to make it stiffer & then cut out the holes & outside bit and you have a handy little guide for lining it all up.

Regarding attempting the belt change yourself - I reckon given all the other work you've shown you've done on the car so far, then this shouldn't be too hard for you.

I think the main things to think about whilst doing the belt change is:
- Re-check all your work after you've done it
- Don't be afraid to ask lots of questions
- Take your time

Go back to AlfaBB & read some of the other threads on doing the job if Steve's notes are a bit hard to understand. I think that once you get into it you'll find it's not as hard as it might initially sound. 

My simple steps were (off the top of my head!):
- Jack up the car & remove drivers side wheel & inner wheel liners
- Remove accessory belts for AC, alternator, power steering. Note that all Aussie 12v cars seem to have the V belts, but photos on AlfaBB will most likely show ribbed serp accessory belt with an idler pulley.
- Drain coolant & remove top radiator hose
- Remove plenum, crankcase vapour hosing & separator, idle control valve & upper engine dogbone mount
- Remove ignition wires & spark plugs.
- Remove thermostat and disconnect temp sensor wiring.
- Check condition of 2x small stubby coolant hoses between cylinder banks & thermostat housing.
- Remove timing belt covers NOTE: I've just had a look at AlfaBB notes and Steve advises lowering engine & subframe to get better access when removing cambelt covers. I've never done this and always found it possible to do the job without lowering engine, it's just a bit harder to wiggle the covers off.
- Remove front and rear rocker covers exposing camshafts
- Remove crankshaft sensor on front of engine
- With car in Neutral or Park - roatate engine until TDC marker/line on crank pulley on front of motor lines up with indicator. #1 cylinder should be at TDC at this point. Note that mark on crank pulley can be a little hard to see sometimes.
- Once at TDC check (using paper template) if cam pulley markings line up. Each camshaft will also have a marking on it that lines up with a mark on the camshaft bearing cap. Hopefully all these markers line up whilst engine is at TDC. I've read reports of people finding rear bank is off by a belt tooth (or two) but have never seen this on a 12v myself.
- Once you are happy engine is at TDC it's time to remove timing belt. You'll need to de-tension the tensioner - I used a long flat blade screwdriver to lever tensioner pivot arm & then hold it in detensioned position with a small screwdriver in locking hole.
- When bolts holding tensioner unit to engine block are removed you should now be able to pull it away from block.
- I'm assuming you'll have an oil fed tensioner which may or may not have had it's oil feed disconnected (often sealed with a dab of weld). Either way I always pull the whole unit to bits & inspect inside. If it's still oil fed then good idea to fit a seal kit, or if it runs dry then I make sure there is some grease on piston & bore so it doesn't sieze. I've never dealt with the sprung tensioners they discuss on AlfaBB but they sound somewhat unreliable and very fiddly to set up.
- Fit your new tensioner bearing once you've cleaned up tensioner and are happy that it won't leak (if oil fed) & piston is able to move freely.
- If you've got a new tensioner bearing but it doesn't have the centre (with offset pivot hole) then you will need access to a bearing press to swap this out from the old bearing & into the new.  Once done I always put a few drops of locktite on the small bolts that hold bearing centre to tensioner arm.
- Check behind both cam pulleys for any oil leaks. I've never had to replace the seals here yet but if there is a bad leak you'll need to fit a new seal after removing cam pulley. There is a spot on either camshaft for an open end spanner to hold it / stop it turning.
- Fit a new water pump while you are here if you detect any shaft play, or want some peace of mind! Be sure to clean mating surface on block & use a small amount of gasket compound to seal. Same for thermostat once new belt is fitted!
- I found it easier to refit tensioner first, then fit new timing belt after. You may need to coerce belt back over tensioner bearing with something like a large flatblade but obviously be careful not to damage belt. It can be tricky to do this whilst making sure both cams plus crankshaft all stay lined up & might take a few goes.
- Setting belt tension is a bit of a black art, but the consensus (from what I've read) is that you should aim for 6mm deflection on the longest section. On a new belt I've always set it ever so slightly tighter on the assumption that a new belt will stretch a very small amount in the first few thousand kms, and I think it is better to have belt slightly tight than slightly loose (risking slippage). The belts are very unlikely to break unless you set it majorly over tension.
- Once you have belt refitted - turn engine over many times by hand to ensure it has no slack at any point of cycle, and everything is staying lined up when engine returns to TDC again.
- Refit all the other stuff you removed from engine earlier & refill with fresh coolant (& bleed system). If you are keen you could check clearances - exhaust clearances are easy to check/correct whilst rocker covers removed but intakes require shims (& cam removal!) so you can leave these unless they are badly out of spec.
- Start engine & let it get to temp while it is still jacked up with wheel off - watch for any coolant leaks around thermostat or water pump.
- When you are happy all marks still line up at TDC then refit all the remaining bits & you should be good to go.

Hope this helps! My steps above are more an overview for you, you should supplement them with info from AlfaBB threads that go into much, much more detail.

[V AR 164]

Wow thank you so much for the explanation! I really appreciate the help you have given. Knowing it's not an extremely hard job I may have a crack at it.
Again just quickly, to remove the rear bank of spark plugs, do you need to remove the intake manifold? I can't seem to pull the distributor leads out from behind.

Again Thank You!

Andrew.

[stustustu123]

Sorry for late reply, you've probably already moved ahead now, but you don't actually need to remove plenum to get rear spark plugs out. That said, it makes it a LOT easier if you do!!

[V AR 164]

No worries stu, thanks for that. I probably will remove it because I still can't manage to pull the leads out 

I haven't started it yet, instead I will taking it to a mates places who is a mechanic and I will be helping him with the timing belt. Still not confident enough to undertake it myself.

Thanks a bunch!
Andrew.

[V AR 164]

Hey guys,

My other 164 has a bit of an attitude. Sometimes she will not start, I have even flattened
the battery several times trying. Other times she behaves. I tried to take a video but she turned over instantly 
The problem seems to be a fuel issue. I turn the key and it wants to go as the engine almost kickes over for a second or so, but then it stops and goes back to doing nothing. It does this a few times. When it finally goes, it misfires badly as it seems like it runs on 4 cylinders, then after a minute or so it smooths out.
Also I should add, compared to my other 164, it is soooo down on power. It has been like that since I purchased it, so it's nothing new.

Any ideas what the problem could be?

Thanks, Andrew.

[stustustu123]

Hi Andrew,

Have you checked the small fuel hose on the top of the fuel pump unit? It's submerged in the tank, so you'll need to take the carpet out of your boot, remove the access panel, and then lift out the fuel pump unit.  This piece of hose often starts to break down over the years and leak & cause reduced fuel pressure. Fairly easy to check this one but obviously be careful working around a fuel tank that will have fuel in it (best to disconnect the battery first!).

If it needs replacing you should use hose that is capable of being submerged in the fuel tank (not sure what diameter it is - possibly 7.5mm?).

[V AR 164]

Thanks again Stu, you are such a great help around here!
I'll have a look at it tonight, hopefully that's all it is and nothing major.

Thanks, Andrew.

[V AR 164]

Update:

As the car was sitting for so long, some surface rust had formed on the chrome intake pipes in the engine, I used a scourer on them and removed the rust, surprisingly without scratching them to pieces    Then I used some polish to clean them up a bit more, then I applied some spray on wax, Turned out great!

Left: Before, Right: After:



After:

[V AR 164]

Unfortunately I forgot to take a full before shot, but you get the idea.
It looks much nicer now

Also it is going in on Tuesday for a new set of tyres, then the timing belt, then off to go get a roadworthy

Thanks, Andrew

[V AR 164]

Hey guys,

I just got an unregistered vehicle permit for my Alfa and my father drove it on the road for the first time in 15 years (very exciting by the way 😃😃😃)
However, I have noticed the speedo is out. When travelling at around 60kmh the gauge reads 25-30.
It doesn't 'flicker' as it stays reading a consistent speed.

Any ideas? My mechanic says the gauge may need to be re calibrated. Or I can just take the one out of my other 164 and put it in.

Thanks, Andrew.

[V AR 164]

Finally!

Timing belt replacement in progress!

Over at the mechanics now and getting a new timing belt, water pump, thermostat and replacing rubber hoses. Plus a new stock exhaust.





Almost there!

Thanks, Andrew.