New Forum member

[len105]

Hi fellow Alfisti

I am not so new to AROCA - however, thanks to Doug Sellwood in Sydney, I have now learned about this group of enthusiasts in the southern state who talk all things Alfa......and more !! Sooo.....hello to all you VIC's.....and of course, the other states.

Briefly, I am considering buying a black 164Q - I had a white one 10 years ago and loved it & have always regretted selling it -when I spoke with my regular Alfa service mechanic about it, he asked me to reconsider.........not because he is an imposter, but rather he thought it would send me broke - over time !!

Apart from the cam belts, and some a/c issues, can anyone remind me what I should be looking at prior to purchase ? All comments are welcome.

[Davidm1600]

Hi Len

I too am not a new Alfisti addicted owner (20 + years) of many models, but like yourself am new to this forum.  Regrettably in Tassie the Alfa club disbanded back in the early 90's. A new club called Club Motori Italia formed out of the ashes of the Alfa Club, I wrote an article some years ago for CAMS about this.

Now to your query re a 164Q, in essance many of the same problems and therefore costs for a standard 164 are true also for the Q model. eg a new starter motor $1000 etc etc.  The Q is more desirable and hence will hold their value for a little longer but given that 164s values are plunging rapidly as are also 166s, I can't say I would be rushing out to get one.  Indeed a guy I know here sold his black Q to someone in Victoria in exchange for his GTV6 race car. (the race car had been for sale about $10K).  A mate of mine is selling his mint condition 164 (body, trim and mechanicals) for as little as $2.5K as it is costing him too much to maintain.  He bought it a few years ago for $12K and reckons it owes him at least $16-17K.  Fuel consumption with the auto is crippling, at least with a manual this might be ok. 

Good luck if you proceed with one.  Cheers Dave

[len105]

Thanks for your coments Dave. I actually have a Club Motori sticker on my 105 which I picked up in Tassie a couple of years ago !
You are right about the parts - they can get costly - plus some bits are quite hard to locate I have been told. As for price, it's the usual story -  demand & supply dictates a premium for the the Q's, and you have to assume that there is another alfisti enthusiast out there to take it over from you one day !!?? However, my concern is that the cost of running it will start to undermine the enjoyment factor !!
Len 

[John Hanslow]

Hi there Len105, you raise some interesting comments here.  You probably have read recent comments re another enthusiast and his 164Q gearbox issues.  Your prior views are very much to the point.

I can only say that owning a 164 Q ten years ago would be like owning an a 156 GTA today.  From what I have heard there are no specific issues with GTA ownership and that they are a fantastic car.  While not the 'current' model, we are looking at reasonable new technology here. You pay for specialist servicing and the usual replacements eg timing belt, clutch, tyre etc of good quality.   Purchase price of the car $35k plus ... ?

An Alternative >

Now today, take a look at the 164Q, these cars are comming up to 20 years old, the cars had the climate control, sports syspension etc which were a first for their time.  Then cluth, timming belt tyres etc.  As things wear out they need replacing.  Things need replacing or rebuilt or an overhaul.  Cooling system, brakes and aircon;and remenber to checj if stepper motors were replaced, most have been for obvious reasons or the climate control is out of control.  And there are much fewer Q's out there than the standard 164.  The wreckers yards have quite a few 164's sitting there now.   

Its all realitive so if you get an older 164Q, say purcase price $7.5k,  then the capital outlay is much less and you have option of level of service.  As you said resale values are not that great so I agree it can be a bit painful - why annually spend heaps on a car with resale value on the low side.  But you get great performance in a car that does not cost that much to buy.

If your friends standard 164 at $2.5k, maybe he should put it up here on our Sales Forum with some photos and similar minded enthusiasts may want to have a look at it.  If in good nic, then it should sell ahead of the rest.

Cheers.

[Davidm1600]

Hi John, I think you got part of the postings a little confused between Len and myself.  Nethethless good advice re 164s.  I have little knowledge of these cars not having even driven one. 

They certainly do seem to be rapidly going down in price, well especially on e-bay, and so perhaps this is a little one-sided.  Needless to say there was one for sale here last Saturday in Hobart, not going or registered for $600 / $700. 

I personally think my mate's car is underpriced, as it is a really straight and extremely well maintained car, but I understand he is after a quick sale as he has bought another car (a modern Honda).  Still at least he has a nice condition 2L Berlina and so hasn't deserted Alfa ownership in total.  I will mention to him the smart option of advertising on the Forum and the Vic AROCA site, I think he is still a member of the club.

Cheers
Dave

[len105]

You are right John H - reading about the 'shock, horror & disappointment' re 164Q gearbox issues - it scared the crap out of me !!

Since my first posting, I have inspected a black 164Q & had a drive therof - 150k's, quite a bit of money spent in the last 12 months re clutch, air con woes and timing belts - some of it to be expected. A very nice example and liked it quite a bit.
However, you also raise some salient points about 18 year old technology versus 5 years or so - and, as I have haven't driven a 156 GTA, that's now on my list of 'must do's'......asap

And, DavidM1750, I did notice that there was a little bit of confusion re 164 comments - however, I would suggest your friend lists his 164 on the forum, or at the very least, on the AROCA websites. What colour is it by thev way ?

Len

[Davidm1600]

Hi Len

Yes I too would be a tad scared at the costs involved in a 164Q, given that other forum members experience.  $5K for a rebuilt gearbox.  I just spent $1100 on parts with free labour to rebuild my 105 (Giulia Super's) gearbox and thought that was reasonable.  A mate at my work (Tasmanian State EPA) was doing a TAFE mechanical engineering certificate for fun and needed a project gearbox to work on.

I will definitely let my other mate know about the forum for sale postings.  His 164 is metallic dark blue with a charcoal leather interior.  The latest thing he has done to it was put on a new exhaust.  It sure sounds sweet.  I must admit to having been tempted about a year or so ago by a 166 but given that they too are plummeting in value and are undoubtedly expensive to repair I didn't investigate too far.  Took the sensible route and went for a 2003 JTS 156 sportwagon.  The GTA would be nice I am sure but not what I need at this time.

Goodluck with whatever you get.