Alfa 75 TS standard factory sway bar thickness

[alanm]

Hi all,

I am in the process of ordering some parts to freshen up the front suspension on my car.
EB spares cannot confirm the standard front sway bar thickness for an Australian delivered 75 TS so I don't know which to order.
EB sell 20mm, 22mm and 24mm.

Can anyone confirm the correct size for the TS?
I could buy a micrometer but I would probably only use it once!

Cheers,
Al

[alanm]

Okay, just measured the sway bar using a fairly crude but effective method, it's definitely 22mm.
Al.

[Paul Gulliver]

Al, As no one else has piped up i'll just throw in my 2 cents worth. I currently have an  1979 Alfetta GTV  that I use for club days. Not a 75 but a transaxle car with a twin spark motor. Over the last 8 years that I have had the car I have gradually upgraded the torsion bars . From the original 19mm to 24mm and now to 27mm. Even at 27mm it is still a very comfortable car to drive on the track or road and very sure footed. The original Alfetta  and later Alfa 75 TS have a tendency to just roll over on the suspension with any sort of spirited driving . I don't know what purpose you are going to use the car for but in my view it wouldn't hurt to stiffen it up a little. Over the last couple of years I have had very close times at Alfa club days  with Joe Falcone when he was punting a 75 TS. In fact there was never more than .8 of a second different in our times at any track over a 2 year period . However I always thought I had the edge on Joe in the handling department . His car was running standard torsion bars.

I think the picture is worth a thousand words .


  http://www.flickr.com/photos/simmor1/7837390360/in/set-72157631139847882

I would go for the largest bars you can get.

PS; If you scroll back 2 photos on that flickr link  you will see my car with 27m torsion bars in the same corner

[alanm]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for your response – much appreciated.

My son and I have done a couple of racecraft days and sprints in the 75 with the Club and I want to freshen it up a little before we take it on the track again.

After much deliberation about rubber vs poly and caster bushes vs joints, I am ordering new sway bar link bushes, new sway bar to body bushes (poly) and the EB Spares caster arm ball joint conversion kit. The car is fitted with Koni red dampers, I will ask my Alfa specialist (sponsor) to check to see if these need adjustment. I expect that other suspension components might need replacement also...

I have Ferodo 2500 pads on the front of the car but iffy ones at the rear, these need replacing also.

I recall seeing photos of Joe's car at Sandown and marveling at the amount body roll – your car certainly has a better 'attitude'.
I was thinking that the torsion bars might be stage 2 or stage 3 modification – after R spec tyres?

I definitely have a LOT to learn about driving the car – Joe and you are WAAAAAAAAy faster than I am!
A friends 17YO son who just posted a sub 2 minute time on the long track at Winton on his second time out in a stock MX5 is shaming me into action!

Regards,
Alan.

[DHDamo]

Al, I did front sway bar on my 83 gtv last year. Original bar was 20mm and new (used) one was off a 75 I'm told (it's 24mm). It helped on track and road but body roll still off the charts on track under spirited cornering. I have to agree with Paul, the torsion bars will have a greater handling effect and is on the top of my to do list. I'm also going to go for the 27mm torsion bars and i understand many people have done this and are very happy with the results. Keep us posted, I think 24mm bar regardless of whether or when you do torsion bars. My 2bob.

[GTVeloce]

Interestingly, a well respected Alfa mechanic and club sponsor who punts a TS powered alfetta GTV, suggesting I remove my front sway bar for track use. I have 28mm T bars (Alfetta TS also) and he believes I will get better grip with my road tyres without the use of the sway bar. However, he also said if I was to use R spec rubber it would be very different and on with a sway bar.

On the track I didn't notice body roll as being an issue. Next time I want R spec however... Maybe worth experimenting with both although if you are using stock T bars there will probably be too much roll.

The standard sway bar is 22mm for Aus TS 75's.

[alanm]

Thanks for your input guys, nothing like a suspension thread to stimulate a bit of interest 

I am going to stick with the plan – Stage 1 freshen up the front suspension replacing worn components as required.
From a visual inspection I can tell that the sway bar link bushes are completely knackered, almost certainly the ones fitted to the car in 1987.

Stage 2 a step up from road tyres and thicker torsion bars –  Performatek lists 27mm bars at U.S$445.00 a pair, I assume that our local supplier would charge about the same (without a hefty delivery charge).

One thing that I know for sure is there are lots of different views about suspension modifications.

On the one hand Alfaholics 75 "Handling kit' consists of a 29mm front antiroll bar and 2 stiffer rear springs, on the other hand a knowledgeable specialist suggests removal of sway bar with road tyres... Jim Spackman, Sales Manager at Alfaholics and keen punter of a 75TS has stated that Poly caster bushes are one of the best mods you can make, others say caster ball joints are the way to go (not too harsh for road use). Its so confusing  

It is tempting to go looking for 24mm sway bars, presumably from a 3.0 75 or a GTV6... DOH!

Cheers,
Alan

[TimD]

Shipping from Perfomatek is not too bad, but communication can be an issue. I got a 27mm front sway bar and it took about 3 months to arrive. Andy included a poly link kit to apologise, and I was not worried as the car was having other work done.

I was looking to emulate the Alfaholics handling kit, but I wanted to lower my car slightly and their kit is for stock ride hight. So I got some -30mm springs and the Perfomatek 27mm front sway bar and set the torsion bars -45mm. It ended up costing about the same as the Alfaholics kit.

Regarding the caster bushes, when I got my car I replaced the bushes with standard rubber and they collapsed almost immediately. I then installed the poly bushed from EB Spares. I reckon ball joints would be better, but the poly bushes are cheap and for the road would do 90% of the job.

I have heard of removing the rear sway bar for track work as it allows more movement in the De Dion, keeping the tyres on the road. I would have thought removing the front would just result in understeer. But I could be wrong.

I plan on going to 27mm torsion bars next, so let me know where yo get them and the cost.

[GTVeloce]

I bought my 28mm T bars from PACE in Melbourne for $700 about three years ago.

I would be wary about using ball joints if you drive the car on the road. They have no compliance so you are going to suffer over bumps. Poly works well. That said, as my car is primarily a road car I am running half rubber half poly. I must say it is quite comfortable and yet had no problems on the track. That said, I am running bigger bars, longer upper ball joint (also PACE) and Bilsteins as well as King springs on the rear. On the track I never felt the suspension was a limiting factor. Tyres yes followed by brakes overheating.

[alanm]

Thanks for sharing your insights guys.

Based on everything that has been said have decided to change from caster arm ball joints to Poly bushes.
The car is a daily commuter and an occasional sprinter, not a dedicated sprinter.
As TimD said Poly bushes are cheap and do 90% of the job.

GTVeloce, thanks for the heads up on the cost of the T bars, I will factor that into my thinking for the next step.

I will report back when I do my next sprint.
I will see what I can do about getting some instruction from some of you guys who really know how to drive as well 

I was fortunate to do a race craft at Winton a couple of years back with Phil B, but I think I need more work 

Cheers,
Alan

[Duk]

I bought my 28mm T bars from PACE in Melbourne for $700 about three years ago.

I would be wary about using ball joints if you drive the car on the road. They have no compliance so you are going to suffer over bumps. Poly works well. That said, as my car is primarily a road car I am running half rubber half poly. I must say it is quite comfortable and yet had no problems on the track. That said, I am running bigger bars, longer upper ball joint (also PACE) and Bilsteins as well as King springs on the rear. On the track I never felt the suspension was a limiting factor. Tyres yes followed by brakes overheating.

That's a nice set up. The PACE long top ball joints are an excellent upgrade and reduce the requirements for relying on fatter anti-roll bars to try and fix the handling woes. Extra front spring rate is a must, too. Well, more so the V6 cars.

Also, while I haven't checked mine, remember that the lower control arm pivot on metal on metal bushes/bearings, so I can't see the caster arm ball joint adding anymore noise than the lower control arms already transfer.

How do you go with bump steer, GTVeloce? I measured considerable bump steer on my car, with the PACE top ball joints and fixed almost all of it with a slightly modified (slightly machined down tapered section) bump steer correction kit for an R32 Skyline (14mm thread).
This was when I was testing and measuring. Propper sleaves are made to hold the rod end in place.
As you can see, the outer rod end had to be held as high as possible to get bump steer very, very low.
I bounced a laser pointer, mounted on the wheel hub (with engineering spec Bluetack...........  ) off of a mirror and back onto a verticle surface also mounted on the wheel hub.

[alanm]

I can't decipher half that stuff that this guy talks about in the comments under the video but his car seems to go okay
Actually he does mention something about increased front roll centre.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjw9c57S5dY

Al.

[alanm]

All the parts have been delivered, looking forward to having them fitted along with some DS2500 rear pads. I think I will also take the plunge and get Dunlop Z1s - with the suspension freshening, the pads and the tyres I should notice a difference in the way the car performs.
Al.

[alanm]

Direzza Z1's fitted along with poly suspension bushes and new rear brake pads. Koni dampers also 'dialled up'.
On the road the car feels tighter, sharper and stronger.
Definitely feeling the lumps and bumps in the road more than I did before, maybe just a touch of vibration through the wheel.
This might be the poly caster arm bushes, or more likely, the cumulative effect of the various changes.

Will appreciate the benefits more when the car goes on a track - probably Broadford.

Al

[gkurup]

Shipping from Perfomatek is not too bad, but communication can be an issue. I got a 27mm front sway bar and it took about 3 months to arrive. Andy included a poly link kit to apologise, and I was not worried as the car was having other work done.

I plan on going to 27mm torsion bars next, so let me know where yo get them and the cost.

Hello. I realize it's an old post, but am looking to replace the rubbers on a 27mm front sway bar. Have written to Performatek but any idea if they are readily available anywhere else? None in the usual - EBspares, ClassicAlfa....
Thanks in advance.
Gopi.