Historic Group S - Alfa Group S Challenge - Get Involved!

[Scott Farquharson]

Just thought I would start a thread on Historic Group S to answer any questions there may be on the subject. I have included a short intro to Group S below.  If you have wanted to go racing but haven't had the budget or didn't think there was a category to race your trusty Alfetta GTV or 105 Coupe well Group S could be the answer!!

What is Historic Group S?

Historic Group S is a low cost way of being involved in one of the fastest and most exciting forms of motorsport – Historic Racing.

Group S is one of the fastest growing categories of historic motor racing in Australia, with spectacular grids running up to 45 cars.   Based on mildly modified production sports cars, Group S is designed to provide a forum for competitors to race cars from the '50s, '60s and '70s in a form similar to period club racing. 
And like Group N (Historic Touring Cars) new cars can be built.   That is, cars do not have to have a racing history from the period as is required for all other classes of Historic Racing (Group C Touring cars for example).

The cutoff is 1977 meaning the all 105 Coupe's and the Alfetta GT and GTV 2.0L are eligible and importantly all run on model years, meaning that any steel bumpered Alfetta GTV 2.0L built after 1977 (thru to 1981) are also eligible!

At the recent Phillip Island Classic there were five Alfa's competing in the Under 2 L Class with an Alfetta GTV posting the fastest time in the class in qualifying and running in second place over the weekend.  Lap times ranged from 2:02 to 2:11 for the Alfa's, the first one home 18th outright in a field of 44 cars.  The outright cars lap in around 1:56/57 – not that far in front of the Alfa's.

As the name suggests the class is for Production Sports Cars meaning that the cars are showroom standard with minimal modification (similar to our Super Modified Class). The major modifications allowed are:

• Tyres must be from the Production Tyre list and must be 60% profile.
• Engine Internals are free, carby size is free, exhaust is free
• Shocks and springs/torsion/sway bars are free

The complete rules are contained in the 5th Category/Group Sc section of the CAMS manual.

Cars must adhere to all the normal racing safety reg's including fire extinguisher, roll cage, cutoff switch etc.  You also need at minimum a Provisional Circuit Racing Licence (C3) and the usual race suit, boots etc

For more info see the Group S section of the main web site and the Group S forum area.

[Fast Eddie]

only $$$ keeping me away!

[Scott Farquharson]

only $$$ keeping me away!

It's only money....

[branko.gt]

Scot, if i understand the CAMS manual correctly there are few subgroups in S. Sa, Sb, and Sc. What is significance of that. Are all the cars competing together or is there a real distinctions. I am particularly interested in Sb because 1750 gtveloce falls into that group.

This is quite timely discussion! I am trying to decide what exactly to do with my 1750. If there are enough people in the club particiapting in the S group i may decide to go that way. This also means that I need to be more restrained in any modifications and that i need to retain the 1.8 litre engine.

[alfagtv58]

Scott, Maybe you can clear up something for me, which has stopped me looking into Group S a bit further.  My 105 was originally fitted with a 1300, and currently runs a 2Litre.  Would I have to run the 1300 motor (per original body) to be eligible

Cheers,
Phil Baskett

[branko.gt]

For some reason GT Junior 1300 is not listed in the Group Sb or Sc. Not sure why is that.
Scott, can you offer an explanation ?

It is my understanding that you need to run the original engine for that model.

[Scott Farquharson]

Scot, if i understand the CAMS manual correctly there are few subgroups in S. Sa, Sb, and Sc. What is significance of that. Are all the cars competing together or is there a real distinctions. I am particularly interested in Sb because 1750 gtveloce falls into that group.

This is quite timely discussion! I am trying to decide what exactly to do with my 1750. If there are enough people in the club particiapting in the S group i may decide to go that way. This also means that I need to be more restrained in any modifications and that i need to retain the 1.8 litre engine.

Well first of all great to see interest - we are planning to have at least one car at Sandown plus the intersate guys should be there as well. 

Sa Sb and Sc refer to the period of manufacture.  Sa is 1941 - 60, Sb 61 - 69, Sc 70 to 77 but importantly this includes any "run on" models so Alfetta GTV's thru 81 (metal bumper cars) are eligible.  All the cars run together but trophys are awarded for each class.  Have a look at the results from Phillip Island - http://www.natsoft.com.au/cgi-bin/results.cgi?12/02/2006.PHIL.R3

If it is a 69 1750 then it is Sb and would need to retain the 1.8.  Engine mods do not have to be all that restrained - there will be an article in the next mag detailing what can be done.  Basically engine internals are free, carby's free, exhaust free 180 HP +   Suspension includes all the usual PACE stuff running on 195/60/14 Yoko AO32's.

Grp S would be a great place for the 1750.

[Scott Farquharson]

Scott, Maybe you can clear up something for me, which has stopped me looking into Group S a bit further.  My 105 was originally fitted with a 1300, and currently runs a 2Litre.  Would I have to run the 1300 motor (per original body) to be eligible

Cheers,
Phil Baskett

Hi Phil,  I will ask the question - what year/model is it?

Scott

[Scott Farquharson]

For some reason GT Junior 1300 is not listed in the Group Sb or Sc. Not sure why is that.
Scott, can you offer an explanation ?

It is my understanding that you need to run the original engine for that model.

Doesn't matter that it is not on the list - it would be eligible - the sports car list is an imperfect beast.  Cars generally need to be as they were in the day so it probably would need to retain the 1300 however you would be running in the lower capacity class with Midgets etc  I would love to see a Giulia 1300 competing.

[Scott Farquharson]

The photo below is a photo of Paul Newby, a NSW AROCA member, competing at the Phillip Island Classic in Feb this year.  A following is a short history of the car lifted from the Group S website.

Car: Alfa Romeo Alfetta GT (Colour - Periwinkle Blue Metallic)
Year1975
Race Number 31
Purchased 1998 ((Fourth owner) as a wreck & built up over two years into race car. (Superspinted in various other Alfas from 1998 onwards). First race was in Alfetta GT in 2000, first Group S Historic race in 2001. Outright and Class (under 2 Litre) Sc Champion in 2002 (beating the Porsches ....). Crashed at Eastern Creek in 2003 & rebuilt over 18 months. Back on track in 2005 & second in class in Sc under 2 Litre. Pic by Darren Hodgson.

[Fast Eddie]

Scott is correct.  The Group S sub-classes relate to age of vehicle.  The main crux of getting eligibility pre-approval (via a chat and an inspection with a certain VSCC/CAMS representative) is the car must be original i.e. the engine is what belonged to the car at time of commercial release. if it ran a 1300 but now has a 2000 now, a 1300 needs to be re-installed.  You will then compete against like sized engines.

Group S concentrates on limiting mods to a set of appropriately aged cars - pre 79.  The eligible car list in the CAMS manual is really a list of example "marques".  Even my SPRINT is eligible in theory.  If it is a pre 1979 plated car or "looks like it (i.e. run-on) then it can be entered.  But the rules dont stretch so far as to allow a 1987 car into a group that ends @ 1979.  so it pays to seek pre-approval from the CAMS/VHRR rep before spendign all that money.

Run-ons allow for stretching of the body eligibilty rules.  The GTV is a perfect example.  EG Group Sc allows for 1977 - 79 bodied cars.  In the case of GTV, the 79 body was still the same in 1981 (before it went to plastic bumpers etc) so theoretically a 1981 GTV is eligible to compete. 
And anyway, the bumpers can legitimitaly removed, making the difference only some minor cosmetic trim items.

I Just need the space and the money and i am there.  It has been a dream of mine ever since my Dad took me to Historic meeting in the 70's.

[alfagtv58]

Thanks Ed, I thought that might be the case (sourcing and installing a 1300).  I too have been harbouring ambitions of taking to the track in a race environment as well as sprinting.....maybe I need to start looking for something like Paul Newby's car that Scott posted above and start from scratch, as the idea of going "back" to a 1300 is not all that appealing!

Great idea Scott, an Alfa Group S Challenge sounds like a lot of fun, particularly if we get the same sort of camaraderie at a Historic meeting that we get at a sprint.  Now all I need is the funds to start the Alfetta project.

Anyone want to buy my 105!!

[Victor Lee]

Hey Phil,

Don't sell the 105 before the Mallala 6 hour!! 

More seriously, Ateco's General Manager for Alfa Romeo (David Stone) is looking for a 105 1750 race car to run in historic series.  Any in Victoria we can offer to him?

Victor

[branko.gt]

sorry, but he cannot have mine ! 

[vin sharp]

Hi guys,
Just thought I'd chuck in my two bobs worth on Gp S.
As far as eligibility goes, as I understand it, a vehicle has to be accurately REPRESENTATIVE of a model, not actually an absolute original car of that model. I believe that actual chassis type numbers are not an issue.
For example, with a step-nose 1300 you could update to a 1600 engine. Or, with a 1600 Junior and 1750 you could update to a 2000 engine, IF you also change the all the appropriate grilles, lights and other trim details that belong to the model capacity you wish to change to.
So you are not really stuck in no-man's land if you don't actually have the most competative model at hand, although it makes for a lot less mucking around if you do!
While most people think of a 2.0 as an absolute must, there are several 1750s and 1.8s going just as fast (and faster sometimes) as most of the 2.0s.
Paul Newby's 1.8 Alfetta in NSW is one case in point. The engine is bored to 1830cc, 45mm valves, 11.5:1  comp, 45mm webers etc. Makes a good 175 hp and goes about 3 seasons between ring/bearing/valve spring rebuids. The gearbox is one of my hybrid close-ratio mods using a T/S as a base mixed with other model gears. The suspension is all the usual 116 type set-up; bigger torsion bars, springs, swaybar, knuckle-risers etc. All known quantity stuff.
The point is that it competes very successfully against the 2.0 cars, with trophies to prove it.
  In QLD Manuel Pena, and in WA Josh Copeland both have the same success running 1750 105s.
These are examples of sensible evolutionary (rather than revolutionary) development in modifications of areas that return positive on-track results against theoretically superior larger cc cars....do not despair, all is not lost if you don't have what you think you need!