2002 156 Not running

[Greg Primmer]

2002 156 Selespeed gave a bit of trouble all of a sudden then konked out, Car will not start.... I just purchased it as a project, looks like I might have my work cut out for me... As usual I'm looking at the least expensive way to get this little beauty running again. The car will be back home tomorrow after a tow....

[Mick A]

All I get from that is the following.

Your car gave some trouble.
Your car "conked" out.
Your car won't start.
You don't want to spend any money.

So far you've given absolutely no useful information, so nobody is going to be able to help you out unless they have some sort of psychic mechanical abilities.

Please take a few more moments of your time and give a bit more of a detailed description of what exactly happened, what noises occurred, and the circumstances.

Please describe what happened to your car, and we will do our best to help you out.

Cheers, Mick.

[Greg Primmer]

Mick, Sorry for being a bit vague, I have purchased the car not running. Having surfed many Alfa forums looking into common problems with the selespeeds and to give it a shot to see if I could get it up and running again. The description of the problem is coming from the guy I bought it from. It is a fine looking car and he says it was very good until the gearbox gave him the problem. His explanation was that it gave up very close to home and literally conked out in the driveway. But this happened only once then it wouldn't start so it just sat there. He has three or four vehicles as his projects and couldn't be bothered fixing this one... I get the feeling he is totally genuine, he didn't ask very much for it... I'm having it towed to my house this afternoon and will commence further investigation as to the symptoms. This is a project for me the budget is small, Im good with cars but a complete newbie with Alfas. So far it's cost me $450. It will need a new battery first up and then I'll see what I can determine from there. It does turn over but won't fire as we gave that a shot with a battery he had....

[Mick A]

Cheers Greg.

Sounds like you have two separate problems.

The selespeed one could be major, since the engine cranks, this means you must have system pressure in the selespeed otherwise it wouldnt throw the clutch which allows it to crank.
So the problem is elsewhere. it may even need a clutch, big job.

Also the engine not starting, check fuel, ignition, and timing. Timing is the big one to check. It conked out, I wonder if it broke a cam belt and bent valves.

Anyways, all speculation at this point. Let us know what you find and I'll try help the best I can. 

MICK

[Greg Primmer]

Mick, I have it in the driveway, 20 bucks worth of fuel on the ay home on the trailer just to be sure.. Put a new battery in, selespeed light comes on on the dash... then goes out then comes back on flashing. I can hear the pump pumping for a few seconds when the ignition is on but it doesn't pump when the door is opened.. Turns over but does not fire... I can select  1,  2 and reverse with the stick... still no engine fire but it seems to be turning over very fast... No compression or is this how they sound? I pulled the cover aside to see if the timing belt was on and it seems ok. Thats not to say that it might have jumped or stripped the teeth. I did however see what looks like mayo in the coolant reservoir but no evidence on the dipstick or oil filler cap. Geebers this is looking grim... Car has no rego so getting to a mechanic is going to cost me again...

[Mick A]

The most honest and best advice I can give you is get rid of the car, don't waste your time.

Just on the subject of the engine alone, if it really has no compression then it's likely one of the following:

If it's broken a belt, it's bent valves, and it's a top end reco.

If it's overheated, the rings are cactus, and it's an engine rebuild or replace.

Scrap the car and move on.

-mick

[alfamisa]

Scrap the car and move on.

-mick

More concise, accurate words have not been spoken on a forum. This has nothing to do with selespeed, Alfa or any car brand, this is a common case of low ball buying and then the reality hitting that the vehicle was a piece of shit. Cheap, problem riddled and looking for someone to donate funds to the clown selling it.

Bet the jerk that sold it to you is feeling relieved.

Lesson learned, take it to the wreckers and save someone else having a brainwave to turn an ugly rough rock into a gem.

Good luck on your next venture Greg Primmer.

[Craig_m67]

Or

How much money are you comfortable spending diagnosing a 2002 selespeed which is probably worth a dollar on a good (working registered) day..

Do you have a code reader
Have you actually done a compression test

[psproule]

Ha! Just stumbled on this forum thread - we now own this 156 and it is running....

Bear in mind I already own a black 156 JTS Selespeed, and spinning a spanner or two is good weekend therapy in my book. I spied Greg selling this one off on Gumtree & I um'd and ah'd but when he said $350 I thought what the hell - worst case it has spare gearbox bits for the JTS. Besides the motor it was a little rough but otherwise fairly straight. It is a "Pirelli edition" pre-facelift black 156 TS Sele with spoiler, 17" alloys, Recaro seats  and little cloverleaf badges everywhere. A quick look with AlfaDiag showed a code for timing sensor but no Selespeed errors. It did however have nil compression so we (16yo son and I) dropped the motor and trans out for a look. Interestingly all the timing belts were still in place but when we lifted the head it didn't have a straight valve amongst them! Long story short the drive gear on the front of the crank was loose and given that this design does not have a keyway it had spun and thrown the cam timing out. As the belts were fairly new I suspect whoever fitted the belts (prior to Greg) had spun the motor over with the crank nut while setting the new belts up - catch for the unwary as it is a reverse thread and I suspect they loosened it and caused the eventual catastrophe.

So we turfed that TS and bought another complete motor from a wrecker in Sydney for $600 delivered - 89,000km on the clock. While on the ground we threw all new timing belts & idlers at it, a fresh clutch and some other tidy up bits, took the cover off the transmission for a health check (all sweet) and bolted it all back together with fresh fluids and filters. Parts cost was $800 and it took us 2 days over a weekend. Sunday at around 4pm we fired it up and all sounding sweet and looking good on the computer we took it for a couple of laps of the block, and then a slightly longer test drive. Other than a sticky thermostat (about to be replaced) all was sweet, and this sele actually sounds better than the one in the JTS. We got stuck into the body with a buffer and it came up a lot better than expected. Next up are some fresh boots and brake pads, an interior tidy up and some rego, and my son has a 156 TS as his first car almost matching dad's.

Was this the most cost effective thing to do? Nope. Best first car for someone? Probably not. But my Son learnt a hell of a lot in the process and will have a full understanding of how his ride works and an appreciation for the work he had to put in to get it on the road. And that IMHO is worth every penny. And they are gorgeous - 156's should be rescued!

Cheers - Pat (and thanks Greg!)

[ACE]

Pat,
Congratulations!
PM sent separately.
Ciao

[psproule]

Thanks for the replies folks. I actually dont think these things are particularly hard to work on, and parts are quite reasonably priced and easily accessible (I source from the UK). The online knowledge base around them is also fairly good as is access to manuals, software, tools and test gear. But I guess it's the slightly exotic nature that scares people & mechanics off. They are certainly easier to work on than the V6 Camry my wife previously had. Sure they have some design flaws or oddities which are fairly well documented, but if you look all cars have these. I guess one issue is uncaring owners might want to be able to treat them like a Camry - weld the bonnet shut for 100,000km. Many issues seem to stem from neglect.

In the mid 90's we rescued a little 4 door silver AlfaSud. $250 with blown head gaskets and stuffed rings. We swapped the 1.2 boxer out for a 1.5 "big block" and had a ball with it - became the wife's daily driver & she still misses that car. Son and I are now lusting after a GTA with the 3.2 Busso motor. One day....

Cheers - Pat