Alfa 75 TS starting problem – ignition switch or starter solenoid?

[alanm]

I hear what you are saying about getting help MD, but I at least want the satisfaction of getting the diagram (and my understanding) right. If I follow your corrections the diagram below should be right...

Cheers,
Al

[MD]

Yes.
I like your spirit of never say die..

I make this qualification.
Your T30 B+ connection will come from the present connection on your starter motor.(Closest and largest power cable in the entire car).
The connection from here should have a 30amp inline fuse in it before you connect it to the relay.

This is to prevent a fire if your T30 connection accidentally made contact to chassis ground.

I would still recommend that you should do the job and have the parts ready but have Neil oversee your work if that is fine all round.

[alanm]

Thanks MD, I like the way you have taken the batten and run with it.
You, GTVoloce, and Neil have handled this like... well, like a relay.

Latest diagram – this has got to be a winner!

Al

[Neil Choi]

Alan, as a graphics designer you are terrible.  Your latest diagram 4 looks like Italian spaghetti.
Go back a step to your previous diagram 3 (your latest 4 is incorrect) and just add a 30 amp fuse before terminal 30. 
The -ve on the starter will be connected to an earth which is missing in the diagram 3.
So this is what happens, your trigger (ignition key) sends power to terminal 85 and powers the coil, the circuit is completed by terminal 86 which is earthed.
When the 85-86 coil is powered, it triggers a switch to complete the circuit from 30 to 87 which powers the starter, the starter circuit is completed by the -ve terminal on the starter which is connected to earth.
I am sure you know this.

In the TS, do you need to remove the plenum to get at the starter wiring, or can you get your hands in.  Probably easier to remove the plenum so you can see all the wiring.

[alanm]

Sometimes I follow threads on this forum and I think – clearly this guy has no expertise in fixing his car, he might do more harm than good.

I have just realised that when it comes to electrics, I am one of those guys 

I am going to swallow my pride and surrender (possibly saving you guys more frustration at the same time).

Today I tried to make the cars ignition fail and it wouldn't do it. Maybe cleaning the relay terminals and tightening a few power and earth connections solved the problem... maybe.

I have gone ahead and ordered a new ignition switch and lock set from OKP.
Would I spend 109 Euros for a part to fix this problem? Yes, in a heartbeat.
When I get MPS to fit it, I will get them to wire in the relay as well.

Neil, to answer your question about access to the starter, yes the plenum/intake manifold does get in the way. I am thinking that someone with a hoist might work from under the car to wire the starter.

Thanks for your efforts everyone, the Alfa community is fantastic!

Cheers, Al

[GTVeloce]

No need to remove the plenum completely. If you remove the top of the air box, the black concertina hose and the AFM there is easily enough room to get hands down and onto the starter motor. Removing and replacing the plenum is much trickier and there is always the danger of damaging one of the intake rubbers when putting it back on. This method would be easier than from underneath (hoist).

Oh, but make sure you disconnect the battery before you do any work near the starter.

[alanm]

Just thought I would follow up on some old posts...

New ignition switch solved the starting problem, I am still intending to get a relay installed.
Door locks are surprisingly easy to fit, no idea where to start with the fuel cap lock, need to start researching that...

Cheers,
Alan.

[alanm]

Another follow up...

I was wrong, the new ignition switch did NOT solve the problem (or it did temporarily).

While I was waiting for the right opportunity to take the car to my repairer to install a relay I figured there was no harm in replacing the wire that runs between the starter motor and the terminal block on the inner wing. The factory wire was quite thin, the insulation hard/brittle at both ends and the terminals dirty. I had a new cable made up out of 4 gauge (about 10mm including the insulation), installed it and haven't had the problem since – months ago. 

Funny thing is, when I read back over the posts in this thread, GTVeloce actually suggested the exact same thing on day 1 (or close to) 
He also said 'it's either the starter, the ignition switch, or the WIRES IN BETWEEN!

GTVeloce – hats off to you. Thanks also to the other guys, also aware that the wires in between cause problems too. The relay of course would have solved the problem as well. I know now to make sure the wires are good before doing anything else.

Learning is this – if you have a 75, and it probably doesn't matter V6 or Twinny, change this wire and potentially save a lot of frustration!

While you are at replace the factory battery terminals if they are still there and replace the earth and power wires attached to it.
Shiny talks a lot about this sort of thing in his awesome 75 restoration thread.

Cheers,
Al