Heater core = dashboard removal & Electric Window

[Sir Lancelot]

A couple of brief questions for the moment, the first may lead to further questions... oh yes, and it's an 86' GTV6

1. How hard is it to pull apart the dashboard to get to the heater core? I want to do this for 2 reasons (1) cheaper if I do it myself, (2) give me a chance to clean up the pretty crappy wiring I've found so far.

2. One of the electric window motors will pull the window down at about 1mm/minute, dead slow. But pushes it up at the regular speed. I pulled the door apart, which I haven't done before and there are a few wires in tension. I don't want to pull the motor out in the event I can't put it back again. Any suggestions on what could be wrong and how I can fix it?

[alfagtv58]

Can't help with the second question, but the first I can.

Getting the dash out is dead easy, two bolts that are hiding behind the vents in the middle(ish) of the dash and two bolts at either end, that is all to get the dash out.  However....be warned.....the heater cose is something else, not that hard to get out but a very different story getting it back in.  You want to be sure it is the last resort before pullling it out.  If it is electrical wiring you are doing (god bless Italian electrics  ) I would try to leave the heater core right where it is, but the dash is easy!

Good luck!

[Sir Lancelot]

Thanks Phil, that is good news it's not hard to remove. It may be worthwhile doing to be able to properly sort out those electrics.
Well, I am a bit of newbie when it comes to cars (but not completely!), so what exactly is the tricky bit when putting the heater core back in? I would like to fix it at some point - cracked pipes due to a/c freezing the coolant (water/corrosion inhibitor at the time). I don't know what the assembly physically looks like - I've only been given a visual description.

And how ridiculous is this - fix the airconditioning, which breaks the heater!

[Mat Francis]

Hi Alex,
if it's not too late, the slow windows are pretty easy to fix. i had the same problem in my Alfetta. the first place to start is the switches. i presume they would be the same or similar in a GTV6, in that you just pull them and they come out. once you have them removed, give them a really good internal spraying with some electronic degreaser, moving the switch while you do so. do the contacts as well of course. I found that for one of my windows doing this was enough on its own to get about 4 times the speed i had before.
Next thing is to get some sort of furniture polish, i think i used some crappy, no-name  "instant shine." Soak the channels in which the window slides down into, as this could also be an area of great resistance. be sure to do both the channels in the doors, as well as the ones that the window usually sits in when it is up.
Lastly there is the channel that the clamp holding the window pane runs in. it is probable that is is full of 20-something year old grease which has gone hard and gritty. if you are really serious you could probably go about cleaning this out a bit, but i didn't bother. i just gave it a healthy amount of fresh grease, and found that after all this the windows worked like new!

well, having just typed all that i re-read your post to see its only a problem going DOWN. smart of me. still, for the sake of a few minutes i think its a good spot to start, might work anyway. best of luck

[Sir Lancelot]

All good ideas! I'll give that a go over the weekend. I've finally got around to removing the heater/cooler box and dash and am in the process of cleaning up the wiring... some really dodgy wiring there, but I must say, not unexpected. I'm hoping between the wiring and your suggestion I can fix this window once and for all.

[Sir Lancelot]

Ok, so I've had moderate success so far. Managed to remove everything, heater/cooler box is still being fixed, pick that up this week. The wires were a complete mess, but managed to clean up and solve several electrical problems. Now I'm no autoelectrician, so what does this mean:
Interior lights - managed to fix some bad connections to get the on/off function working. As for the timed function once the doors are closed, the best I could get, is that now when the doors are open, one light works. When the doors a closed, after 10 seconds, both lights go dim. I've checked every wire and connection I could find and it all seems ok. I only took out one cabin light as it's a little tricky without breaking them, but I don't think the problem is at the switch end. So what causes both lights to be dim and not full brightness (or off) after the timer once the doors are shut? Is this a problem with box that deals with the timed fuction (behind the dash?). I've also checked the door switches, and they seem to be ok.

Also couldn't get the wire to the handbrake light to work, but am reluctant to pull up carpet or whatever to get to that wire. I suppose it's possible the light in the switch itself is broken?

Finally the door. Many thanks Mat - great suggestions. Sprayed the switches with contact cleaner, slightly better result. Sprayed HEAPS of silicon down the window channels, and the working windows is much faster. The window which previously didn't go down now works very slowly. The problem is friction in the system somewhere. I haven't taken it apart as I don't know how it's put together. Any suggestions? I've attached some pictures, because everyone likes a picture!

Polished the press button on the seatbelt as the yellow sticker "press" started to look a bit RS. Also new vinyl for the gear lever and handbrake boots! Interior now matches the good looking exterior 

Oh yeah - when I was screwing the dash back in place, one of the two centre nuts that are welded to the firewall fell off. Hows that for a kick in the nuts after fixing so much.

[Sir Lancelot]

My brother is only starting to learn about electrics and mentioned the dim cabin light problem could be related to a capacitor? Is there a capacitor in the box which deals with the timed cabin lights after closing the doors? And if broken/on its way out will it 'leak' a current which could explain the dim lights?

[Al Campbell]

The lights may still be due to the Door Switches. They can be sods of things to get good contact with when they get old. I'm guessing that the dimming circuit would involve a transistor slowly being turned off (or on) by the action of the door switch. Capacitor degradation would probably result in the time to go off changing. If it finishes still being on, but dim then it could be a poor contact in the door switch not pulling the transistor all the way to either +12v or earth, depending how the circuit works. Could also be leaky capacitor.

[Sir Lancelot]

Thanks for that - so if I were to locate the transistor or capacitor, presumably this is the small black box behind the dash which 'clicks' after the doors are shut and the timer has finished? (the point where the lights go dim). If so, do I open this up and replace something inside, or replace the entire unit?

The door switch is a push function - when the door closes, the circuit no longer earths to the car, it seemed too simple a mechanical device to be a problem after I had a look at it, which is why I suspected the problem may be elsewhere. So what exactly does a capacitor and a transistor deal with? I'm a complete novice when it comes to electrics.

[Al Campbell]

I've only had a look at the fuse box once,  then took my new GTV6 to Beninca's. So I'm guessing a bit.  But I thought the light timer was a sealed box, a bit like a relay. Dunno if you can open the sucker up.

A transistor operates a bit like a relay, current flows through two terminals (emitter & collector) under control of voltage applied to a third terminal (the base).

A capacitor is basically two plates that store charge that in this case would be let out slowly through a resistor to provide the delay. This would provide the switching voltage to the base of the transistor.

If there is a poor connection to either earth or +12v with a bit of resistance the base terminal may not be "pulled" all the way to earth or +12v to turn the light completely off.

Clear as mud?

I'd get some contact cleaner and clean all the connectors, the timer relay connector and any earths you can find.

The only diagram I have here doesn't have the interior lights. I'll have a look when I get home.

AL.

[Al Campbell]

Jsut had a look on the transaxle forum:

http://alfagtv6.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=911&highlight=timer&sid=888bfe28bbe5a4b0d63293baf5c343ef

Last reply said:

"I also had a problem with the courtesy lights and the fault was at the door switch which is of a VERY poor quality. It needed a bit of sanding to clean the contact areas and it then worked ok."

[Sir Lancelot]

update:
Contact cleaner in the switches helped a litte, silicon in the window channels helped HEAPS. However there is something physically stopping the window from moving down - sometimes it works, other times the wires go taught and the window doesn't budge. Without pulling it apart, I can't see the problem.

As for the cabin lights, changed the box which deals with the capacitor/timer on the interior lights - now one of them works, perhaps coincidence? still a dodgy connection? at least they both don't go dim. I'll look into this more soon. Now the front speakers don't work. No idea why. Crap.

Heatercore back in, and Phil - you were right, putting the dash back in is a complete bastard. Only cut my hand once which I consider a victory.

[Sir Lancelot]

Quick update for anyone out there with heater tap problems - I quite easily managed to brake mine since it was made of the crappy plastic back in the 80s and does not stand the test of time. I now have a metal inline heater tap which has been modified to work with the standard cable/piping, which includes making sure that hot on the dash opens the valve rather than closes it. Some custom copper piping and flexible tubing also required. Hugh at Monza Motors has the know how!

[Doug Gould]

I find that rebiluding the window motors helps the window speed. They key issue is that the grease in the gearbox becomes hard. From memory you just take a top cover off the gearbox, then flush out the old hard greas and replace it with a light grease. You can also put wd40 on the pulley bearings. You should also check that the glass guides are not too tight on the glass. they can be adjusted.

Doug

[Sir Lancelot]

Thanks Doug, I'll build up some courage and give it a go - sounds like the solution. I've found a lot of the interior of the car is actually quite fragile, but, I am glad the engine is pretty much unstoppable