Thinking of getting a circa 2000 Spider - Am I barking mad?

[bazzbazz]

Get your son to pile in on the argument, show him this ad for a lovely little spider. Tell him he could be driving one of these! -

http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/loganlea/cars-vans-utes/2000-alfa-romeo-spider-t-spark/1137128337

Just looking at the gorgeous colour, lines (leave the dent out), being a convertible, and if he's still in high school, tell him to imagine pulling into the school car park in one of these, he'll be fighting the girls off with a stick. Trust me, he'll tell mum just what she can do with that Astra!!!   

For that fact, imagine yourself pulling into anyone's car park/driveway in one of these!!   

Baz

[Black5]

Get your son to pile in on the argument, show him this ad for a lovely little spider. Tell him he could be driving one of these! -

http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/loganlea/cars-vans-utes/2000-alfa-romeo-spider-t-spark/1137128337

Just looking at the gorgeous colour, lines (leave the dent out), being a convertible, and if he's still in high school, tell him to imagine pulling into the school car park in one of these, he'll be fighting the girls off with a stick. Trust me, he'll tell mum just what she can do with that Astra!!!   

For that fact, imagine yourself pulling into anyone's car park/driveway in one of these!!   

Baz

LOL. Of course you are right.
Yes, I saw that one Baz.
If it wasn't in QLD and for the "little" issues, it would have been a no-brainer.
My son and I don't need convincing, he is absolutely on board with the Spider as one of our neighbours used to have one, and we are working together to convince his mum that an Astra is definitely not suited to his "requirements".

I reckon I need to get her to drive one and imagine herself using it during the week while he is in school.

@Italian Supermodel
Maybe your Italian good looks can let you get away with taking charge of the ladies, but my balding middle aged Greek physique requires a little more subtlety if I want to maintain any semblance of a marriage.

[poohbah]

my balding middle aged Greek physique

Whaddaya mean? All of us Greek boys take after Adonis ...

[Black5]

my balding middle aged Greek physique

Whaddaya mean? All of us Greek boys take after Adonis ...

Yes we do.

Unfortunately, all I got is his nose...

[The Count]

This may have been said before but, as a relatively new Spider owner (well my lovely wife owns it) our experience of our 1999 Twinspark 2.0l (yes, it is a Millenium Spider) would indicate the following things to look for:
Full service history and log books are a real plus.
Make sure the car has a FULL set of keys, especially the brown Master Key and Service Key.
Check that the timing belt and balance belt (and water pump) have been replaced fairly recently
Clutch thrust bearings can wear on Spiders so check that the transmission and gear changes are easy and noise free
The convertible (electric/hydraulic) should work easily and freely (and check back plastic "window" which can get quite cloudy with age)
Rear suspension bushes should be noise free (no squeaks)
Check for the usual oil leaks (both engine and gearbox) some small seepage/weeping may occur on older models
Check that you have a good and reliable Alfa mechanic/workshop fairly close by
There are lots of others that people may contribute but I hope these are helpful.
Our little spider is an absolute joy to drive and still a head-turner!

[Colin Edwards]

I'm considering getting a GTV for sprints.  What's the problem with a JTS?

[alanm]

Colin, this is a good, measured discussion about the issues.

http://www.alfaclubvic.org.au/forum/index.php?topic=5858.0

Scrupulous maintenance might avoid any problems?

Cheers,
Al

[nicb205]

I've got you beat Baz, my first car was a 73 Corolla! I'm also up for adoption...

Baby [emoji90] yellow (mustard) Leyland marina.
Enough said

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

[poohbah]

No contest.  You win. My older sister's first car was an orange Marina "fastback". I can still hear it's wheezy starter to this day. Not sure why we all seemed to go for burnt orange as colour of choice. My youngest sisters first car was a burnt orange datsun 1600 (auto unfortunately). So at one stage there were three orange 70s shitboxes in our driveway all at once.

[nicb205]

No contest.  You win. My older sister's first car was an orange Marina "fastback". I can still hear it's wheezy starter to this day. Not sure why we all seemed to go for burnt orange as colour of choice. My youngest sisters first car was a burnt orange datsun 1600 (auto unfortunately). So at one stage there were three orange 70s shitboxes in our driveway all at once.

[emoji23]

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[Colin Edwards]

Hi Alan.  An interesting read.  Certainly appeared to be two opposing camps with regard to the merits of GDI / JTS engines.  I wonder if the same bias still exists?
A lot of research into GDI derived soot contamination of oil is in the public domain.  Its now conclusive GDI engines produce soot particles not unlike a diesel and some of these particles find their way into engine lubricants.  As you suggest, scrupulous maintenance (regular oil changes) will almost certainly prevent engine issues.  However, not every car is scrupulously maintained!  JTS or Twin Spark, any engine or machine will suffer due to inadequate servicing.  We see it all the time. 
Given the proven relatively higher soot contamination of oil by GDI engines, it would be simple to manage via shorter service intervals / more regular oil and filter changes.  Funnily enough, increased service intervals were introduced about the same time the JTS came on the scene - very poor timing! 

The research into the effects of these tiny soot particles confirms a thickening of the oil.  Not good for protection during starting and warm up.  These particles conglomerate and will ultimately restrict oil flow in galleries and oil ways.   Not surprising the odd worn cam lobe, bottom end bearing or timing chain has been observed.  Again, this will not take place if oil is replaced at suitable intervals.  This contaminated oil will accelerate oil filter blocking and subsequent bypass. 

I'm attracted to the JTS equipped Alfa GTV or possibly 156 for the proposed Formula 98 Sprint Series.  The missus loves the GTV so she who must be obeyed...................!  As the JTS is a more efficient engine than its predecessor,  its the logical choice.  Around 5% < 10% more torque and power from the same displacement is attractive on paper.  So the challenge is to find a JTS that has been loved from the start.

The higher compression ratio GDI / JTS allows, results in much of the improved torque at lower rpm.  Just what the manufacturer and consumer needs without going to the next step of forced induction.  The higher compression and subsequent higher combustion temperatures are managed by the smaller combustion chamber surface area.  Less heat is lost to the cylinder head and coolant.  The hotter and higher pressure gases will expand more.  This benefit is exploited by the usual longer stroke of a GDI engine.  More BMEP for a longer period equals more torque.  Multi valve heads provide good breathing so the higher torque can be produced over a wider rev range = equals more horsepower. 

I understand some GDI / JTS engines feature oil spray to the underside of the pistons.  This is common on motor bikes and is done to manage the heat in the piston.  However, if a relatively volatile oil is sprayed on a hot piston the oil soon vaporizes.  So now we have a reduction in oil volume and an increase in viscosity due to loss of volatiles and soot contamination.  Not an ideal scenario if maintenance is poor or even worse nonexistent. 

I'm looking for a very well loved JTS 156 however we'll probably end up with a GTV JTS. 

As has been said before, oil is the least expensive thing you'll put in an engine.   

[Colin Edwards]

With regard to the GTV / Spider, am I correct in assuming the Twin Spark features an aluminium block whereas the JTS features an iron block or am I way wrong?  Could the same be said for the 156 - aluminium block in the Twin Spark / iron block in the JTS? 
We had a 147 for a while.  I understand these were Twin Spark only.  Did all 4 cylinder 147's feature aluminium blocks?

That silver GTV was blisteringly quick in the wet on Sunday.  VERY impressive driving of a FWD car!

[alanm]

Hi Colin,
Pretty sure that the 8 valve TS (pre Fiat era) has an aluminium block and the 16 valve (Fiat era) has an iron block.
Hugh's performance in the GTV 916 will have impressed lots of people I am sure!
Al.

[bazzbazz]

I think you're referring to the early Alfa "Twin Cam" engines, alloy block with steel liners. The series was then superseded by the "Twin Spark" series.

Anyone who is more knowledgeable of Alfa engine history please correct me if I am wrong.

[Al Campbell]

No contest.  You win. My older sister's first car was an orange Marina "fastback". I can still hear it's wheezy starter to this day. Not sure why we all seemed to go for burnt orange as colour of choice. My youngest sisters first car was a burnt orange datsun 1600 (auto unfortunately). So at one stage there were three orange 70s shit-boxes in our driveway all at once.

Ahh the Marina. Another one of BL's epic products - even the dealers warned you not to buy them.