What to expect with a 105

[Tim Jobson]

Hi guys, yes I am still looking for a suitable 105, however in my quest I have noticed a number of things that I need some advice on.

With regards to the steering, with one car I drove you could move the steering wheel approx 2-3 inchs with no movement of the tyres noticed, what play should you expect with a 105 steering box?

I have also seen an electric fuel pump fitted to a 105 mounted on the body above the rear axle, are the original fuel pumps unreliable/hard to get? what is the advantage of electric?

On the engine side, if an engine and gear box are so call reconditioned, is it common to see
a.       oil leaking from under the gearbox near the engine housing
b.       a gear change that feels very stiff to insert into gear, and
c.       the gear shift to slip out of gear when reversing?

I have also noticed one car that had its front left jacking point crushed in(crushed up actually), does this mean it has rust or a poor repair?   is this one of the worst areas 105s tend to get rust?

One final observation is regarding oil pressure, should you see the oil pressure gauge register something when at idle and at normal operating temp and what should it read when travelling at say 80kph?

Your words of wisdom are appreciated

regards JOBBO

[Colin Byrne]

Hi Tim

Free play in 105's can come from the 6 tie rod ends (replaceable at around $30 each) that make up the steering linkages or more likely from the steering box itself.  The steering box can usually be fixed by adjusting a shim stack under the top cover, however sometimes it can be the top cover of the box is just loose and requires tightening up.  A properly adjusted system shouldn't really have any play in it at all

The original mechanical pumps are still available and aren't particularly unreliable put they will fail eventually.  The biggest advantage to an electric pump is they will fill up the carbie fuel bowls before you start cranking the engine so it should start quicker if its been sitting around for a while 

a.       oil leaking from under the gearbox near the engine housing

Sounds like a leaking rear main engine seal, not uncommon but does require either the gearbox or the engine removed to fix it, and shouldn't be happening to an engine that has been "reconditioned"

b.       a gear change that feels very stiff to insert into gear, and

as long as the gears don't 'crunch' this is probably a sign that the sncyro's are in fact new haven't worn in yet, so not a bad thing

c.       the gear shift to slip out of gear when reversing?

Not a good sign (my road car does this)

Yep rust and poor repairs (bog) can cause jacking points to fail and yes this is one of the 105's worst spots for rusting.

The oil pressure should register during idle, but it is normal for the oil pressure to rise after you come off idle.  As for actually values maybe someone else can give you an idea, I don't trust the actually values of the gauges as I've had the same engine in 2 different cars and had completely different values for oil pressure.

[Pete Y]

Hi Tim..

I see you're still looking.. be patient, and not too fussy!


--Steering--

I agree with Colin - more likely the steering box. And if it is, it's not a cheap job - better in a GTV than a Berlina but still not small change. And you want to get it done - Ive heard horror stories.

--a--

I agree with Colin - main seal. Cheap part, expensive labour. But remember - it's an RWC item for the car not to be leaking, so it'll need to be done if you ever want to register it.

--b--

A bit of stiffness is good, but if you're actually having difficulty, you're probably looking at worn/bent selector forks. Which brings me to --c--, which will almost certainly be a stuffed fork on Reverse. Pretty common.


BTW, Do you have a copy of the Keith Booker Giulia GT buyers guide?? Id certainly recommend it for someone in your position.

[Tim Jobson]

Thanks Pete and Colin for your views.     

Yes I do have the buyers guide and have found it interesting reading.

One other query I have is idle speed, what is normal idle speed for standard 105 (850rpm?) and what should you see on the tacho (ie are they close to reading true revs?)

I will be coming over to sydney then melbourne in early Sept and would like to know if there is a local paper or car sale magazine that could help in my search for a 105.     Looking on the car sales web site over the past couple of months has shown little to no 105s for sale in Vic, I would of thought that Vic would have the lions share of 105s as it sems to do with most Italian cars.

Regards  JOBBO

[pep105]

Tim,
The play in the the steering you mention sounds like the steering box is shagged.
My 105 had the steering box replaced with a recoed unit. Steering has no play and is light and precise and tracks well indeed. Cost was $600 bucks changeover (might be a bit more now) not including labour.
Also you need to have someone in the know to set it up or the turns lock to lock will be out (believe me I found this out the hard way)

My mechanic who works at Milano Wreckers in Melb has told me of a 105 2 Litre for sale thats not advertised yet and has been restored. Let me know if you want his details
Cheers
Pep

[1750GTV]

Tim,
Fixing steering play may be as simple as tightening the large castellated nut that holds the steering (Pitman) arm on the bottom of the box or as complex as a fractured case requiring the sourcing of a 'new' box. These Burman boxes are tough but with neglect and failure to top up the oil, they wear out prematurely and good replacement parts are virtually impossible to get. Fractured boxes seem to be related to fitting low profile wide tyres.

I'd be wary of any gearbox that is too tight and be very wary of one that jumps out of reverse gear.

A warm 105 engine should idle at around 800rpm and the tachos are not that accurate. My 1750 engine idles at 750rpm whilst the very nice looking Veglia tacho reads 900rpm.

Probably best to keep looking for a good car, or at least a good body as most of the mechanical bits are available.

Regards,
Chris

[Tim Jobson]

Thanks guys, and yes pep if you could pass the phone number on it would be great.
Tim

[pep105]

Tim,
105 2 Litre owner asking $13500 in Vic speak to Vince Sartor from Milano Spares on 0417105102
Pics attached

[pep105]

more pics........

[pep105]

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[Davidm1600]

Tim

Firstly I agree with all said on this topic, based on my experience with my 1750 GTV over the past 12 years. 

Fundamentally if the front suspension/steering doesn't feel right, then it isnt and will require repairs.  This can be costly if you have to do everything. Clunks, sloppy or stiff steering or a squeaky front end are all indicative of the problems the others have talked about.

Re rust in the front jacking points, the good news on this front is that you can obtain the necessary rust repair sections from the usual suppliers both locally and overseas.  See the other threads on this.   But if you find a car with this factor it into the purchase/repair price. 

Re the gearbox, I had my Giulia Super's gearbox fully re-conditioned.  Parts alone cost me $1100, and that was with a bit of shopping around to find the best prices.  I was lucky as it was rebuilt (the labour cost) for a decent bottle of red by a mate, who was undertaking a TAFE mechanical engineering course as a project and under the supervision of his tutors.  I am expecting it to be superb once installed in the car.  My GTV's box needs to be rebuilt, as it has the usual worn synchros but at least no reverse gear selectors.  A good 105 box is superb and has a delightful feel.  Far better than most modern gearboxs. 

BTW $13500 for a good condition 2L GTV seems fair but obviously get it checked out for yourself.  I have generally found the guys at Milano to be really helpful and down to earth, but speak to Marc, his dad (Mario) can be a little hard to understand, that is unless you speak Italian !!  Cheers Dave

[pep105]

The good thing is that Vince is very easy to understand because he speaks perfect english (and he is a great bloke and a good mechanic) 
I used to love going to Milanos as it was a laugh to hear Mario speak as he cant say two words without swearing.

Car belongs to Mick who is related to Vince who is now in businees with Marc and Mario at Milanos.

[Tim Jobson]

Thanks pep for the photos and dave for your advice, it will all help me in my 105 quest!