Tbi differences 159 and Giulietta

[falconzappa]

Hi

What are the FULL differences between the 159 tbi  engine and the Giulietta one?

I know that the Turbo is different,that's for sure, but is he engine is %100 same besides that?
Pistons,valve springs,injectors and etc...

Thanks for your answers guys.


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[bonno]

Hi Falconzappa
I have conducted a comparison of the 159 and the Giulietta Verde that utilize the 1.7TBi engine. This engine is used on both models manufactured between 2009 -2016. A summary is as follows, with links to both vehicle spec;
                        159               Giulietta
Capacity cc   1742                1742
Power kW           147@5500rpm            173@5500
Torque      320Nm@1400rpm         340Nm@1900rpm
Bore mm           83                       83.
Stroke mm           80.5                       80.5
Comp Ratio   9.5:1                       9.25:1
Performance    7.7 sec (0-100km/hr)         6.8 sec
Top Speed           235 km/hr                    242km/hr
Link to 159 TBi spec
http://www.carfolio.com/specifications/models/car/?car=195701
Link to Giulietta Verde Spec 1.7 TBi
http://www.automobile-catalog.com/car/2016/2042120/alfa_romeo_giulietta_quadrifoglio_verde_1750_tbi_tct.html
Cheers
bonno

[falconzappa]

Hi Falconzappa
I have conducted a comparison of the 159 and the Giulietta Verde that utilize the 1.7TBi engine. This engine is used on both models manufactured between 2009 -2016. A summary is as follows, with links to both vehicle spec;
                        159Giulietta
Capacity cc1742 1742
Power kW        147@5500rpm173@5500
Torque320Nm@1400rpm340Nm@1900rpm
Bore mm        83        83.
Stroke mm        80.5        80.5
Comp Ratio9.5:1        9.25:1
Performance 7.7 sec (0-100km/hr)6.8 sec
Top Speed        235 km/hr        242km/hr
Link to 159 TBi spec
http://www.carfolio.com/specifications/models/car/?car=195701
Link to Giulietta Verde Spec 1.7 TBi
http://www.automobile-catalog.com/car/2016/2042120/alfa_romeo_giulietta_quadrifoglio_verde_1750_tbi_tct.html
Cheers
bonno

Thanks for that Bonno. So this is an identical engine...I have read somewhere in the forum that the pistons might be larger and the injectors
Might be different? I understand from your answer that it's all the same...


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[bonno]

The bore size of 83mm are identical, but the slightly higher compression of the Giulietta could mean the pistons are different, but unsure.  Only way to check is to see that Part Numbers match. Unable to help here, but suggest you can check with the AR dealer to confirm. Injectors can be checked the same way. Unsure of the purpose of this exercise, ie;  engine transplant/conversion.
cheers
bonno 

[falconzappa]

Thanks. The purpose is to replace the turbo to a Hybrid turbo with F40 implementation...gathering some info before collecting parts. Some were saying that the valve springs needs to be stronger, and that the pistons and injectors are different. Not sure how much of it is true...


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[bonno]

Hi falconzappa
From my experience car manufacturers standardise on engine and drivetrain components to enable worldwide implementation of the make and model (mass production). This enables each model with a typical 15 year through life parts guarantee. The performance differences between the same spec engine is attributed to predominately through the cars ECU. So in answering your original question, I would be very surprised if the pistons, valve springs and injectors are different, but check with the AR dealer just to be sure. Good luck on the conversion
Cheers
bonno

[falconzappa]

Thanks for all of your help! I will check with AR [emoji1360]


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[bazzbazz]

The Giulietta has slightly higher compression but the extra25 odd KW of power mainly comes from it being set to a higher boost setting.

Someone once mentioned somewhere 15PSI but I have no idea if that is true.

[Colin Edwards]

Seem to recall reading somewhere the 1750 turbo engine if fitted to a TCT equipped Giulietta has around 5% more power than the manual gearbox version.  Also seem to recall the TCT Giulietta engine and 4C engine blocks are significantly smaller / lighter / stiffer than that fitted to the 159 turbo.

The missus has a current TCT Giulietta QV and the block does look different to what I recall re the 159 block. 

The Giulietta / 4C engine is fully CNC machined and assembled.  The is something on youtube re 4C engine manufacture.  Alfa Romeo would probably have altered the block design to facilitate CNC manufacture.  The 159 engine possibly wasn't manufactured the same way the Giulietta / 4C engine now is.

[bonno]

Hi falconzappa
I suspect you have being doing some research on fitting the hybrid turbo on your 159 1.7TBi . Here is a link to website that briefly provides an overview when considering such a conversion. Interesting to note that  the type of power increase using standard OEM components is in the range of 30-40% and  anything more you need to start beefing up components.
https://www.torquecars.com/tuning/hybrid-turbos.php
cheers
bonno

[falconzappa]

Hi falconzappa
I suspect you have being doing some research on fitting the hybrid turbo on your 159 1.7TBi . Here is a link to website that briefly provides an overview when considering such a conversion. Interesting to note that  the type of power increase using standard OEM components is in the range of 30-40% and  anything more you need to start beefing up components.
https://www.torquecars.com/tuning/hybrid-turbos.php
cheers
bonno

Thanks guys.
Well I think that if the Giulietta is
Managing bigger amounts of power (I am seeing prototypes with around 370 HP with just a change of turbo+full pipe and intercooler) with no change to the inner parts of the engine, I can't see a reason that the 159 won't do that as well.
Of course, the 159 holds the awful M32 that's why I want first to convert the gearbox to F40 before making the hybrid turbo change.

Another question - since the Alfa 159 is using the GM parts,does anyone have a catalog of the Alfa 159 with the GM code numbers?

Thanks 


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[kaleuclint]

The Giulietta has slightly higher compression but the extra25 odd KW of power mainly comes from it being set to a higher boost setting.

Someone once mentioned somewhere 15PSI but I have no idea if that is true.

A remap is readily available in Melbourne lifting the 159's output to Giulietta figures.  No hardware changes involved.

EDIT:  Just to clarify, the ECU is physically modified (so yes, technically a hardware change); not just flashed.

[Craig_m67]

Seem to recall reading somewhere the 1750 turbo engine if fitted to a TCT equipped Giulietta has around 5% more power than the manual gearbox version.  Also seem to recall the TCT Giulietta engine and 4C engine blocks are significantly smaller / lighter / stiffer than that fitted to the 159 turbo.

The missus has a current TCT Giulietta QV and the block does look different to what I recall re the 159 block. 

The Giulietta / 4C engine is fully CNC machined and assembled.  The is something on youtube re 4C engine manufacture.  Alfa Romeo would probably have altered the block design to facilitate CNC manufacture.  The 159 engine possibly wasn't manufactured the same way the Giulietta / 4C engine now is.

Fairly sure the original Giulietta QV (&159/Brera/etc.) has a cast iron block. The 4C and later TCT GQV use an alloy block. Personally I'd like to know if the iron block is based on an earlier RWD version and could therefore be bolted up to a RWD gearbox (Fiat 124 I think I read somewhere once.. )

Like all engine designs there will be incremental design changes with each iteration, eg. I believe the final 155 model NORD TS engines had oil squirters to cool the bottom of the pistons

The 1750 will be the same. ePer will tell you what has changed, been amended, added etc dependent upon model. Just plug the VIN of a car with either engine you want to check in and have a squiz to see what's been changed.

[bonno]

Hi falconzappa
Do you have a budget for the Hybrid turbo performance upgrade? The reason why I ask is that if you take into account purchase of specially built Hybrid turbo (off the shelf unit for 159 incorporating 1.9JTD) + labour to install, F40 replacement gearbox + labour, re-mapping ECU and fuel supply (forgot to include upgrade intercooler) as recommended, then it might become quite expensive. However, if you decide to only upgrade the turbo, then this will be quite a relatively cheap performance upgrade, but I would get some assurances from the manufacturer before I commit.

cheers
bonno

[falconzappa]

Hi falconzappa
Do you have a budget for the Hybrid turbo performance upgrade? The reason why I ask is that if you take into account purchase of specially built Hybrid turbo (off the shelf unit for 159 incorporating 1.9JTD) + labour to install, F40 replacement gearbox + labour, re-mapping ECU and fuel supply (forgot to include upgrade intercooler) as recommended, then it might become quite expensive. However, if you decide to only upgrade the turbo, then this will be quite a relatively cheap performance upgrade, but I would get some assurances from the manufacturer before I commit.

cheers
bonno

Hi

I might just going to do that in stages. It's indeed not a cheap modification but one that can do justice with the magnificent look of the car and contribute power unit backed with gear assuring (F40 and not the terrible M32) for long lasting.
I was looking on the F40 code number of GM (which is equivalent to 55350926 part number in Alfa)
Does anyone knows what the GM identical part number?

Thanks



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