Toying with a Breaker - Reality Checks, please

[Citroënbender]

Thank you, the Nulon one may be just the ticket. I was expecting a lot dearer, $200-ish. 

[bonno]

For the price your selling the engine for "$200", is it really worth it (arrange test sample and run engine)!!!!. Maybe a simple random check on condition of crankshaft journal & associated bearing and cam lobe (wear visual & dimensional) is a better option.

[Citroënbender]

I've been looking for an "excuse" to buy the extra long Ribe bit to release the sump screws. 

The potential issue with the motor's sale otherwise would be that transport adds appreciably, to the buyer's costs.  So I'm not just seeing it as only a $200 motor. 

What do you (or anyone else) feel about the amount of time its been run on 5/40? Gut feelings, people, just curious. 

Found a cute bit of engraving when doing a pre-dismantle clean under the bonnet...

(Found the matching receipt from late 2013; $720 accumulator, $105 pump relay (OEX brand), $695 exchange pump, inclusive of labour. There's a reason we love to DIY.  )

[bazzbazz]

Good God !

I charge $100 for an exchange Pump and 2-3 hrs labour to fit, calibrate and test it.

I gotta raise my prices!   

[Citroënbender]

And engrave your work!

[bonno]

 

What do you (or anyone else) feel about the amount of time its been run on 5/40? Gut feelings, people, just curious. 

  )

When buying a second hand motor vehicle, you can establish a reasonable level of confidence and reduce the level of risk by taking it for a test drive. From a practical point of view, this is not possible when buying an engine from an automotive recycler, as they provide some warranty (3 months) to reduce the likelihood of a defective engine. They base their pricing on the kms travelled and associated vehicle log book records (if available). Getting back to your original question, what is the likelihood of long term engine damage/wear, using the lower grade oil over several years.  My personal view is Yes, BUT with unknown variables thrown in, such as driving conditions, city V highway driving, frequency of oil & filter changes, etc. Additionally, what guarantee is there that the correct grade oil was used, by the local mechanic carrying out the service (check log book/service records does it stipulate grade of oil used).

[johnl]

What do you (or anyone else) feel about the amount of time its been run on 5/40? Gut feelings, people, just curious. 

Gut feeling as follows:

Isn't it the case that 60W oil was / is 'retro specified' mainly to address oil consumption issues with the TS engine? Is it not also true that 40W oils are listed in the handbook as being suitable?

I'm not aware of any viscosity related wear issues abnormally specific to the TS (may exist, just not aware of any). I'd be surprised if 40W oils per se were problematic for wear, assuming reasonably frequent change intervals and use of otherwise appropriately specced oil.

I've tried both Penrite 40W and 60W oils in my TS engine. The not surprising main difference is that the thicker oil gets 'consumed' a bit more slowly, but seems to increase fuel consumption (slightly). On the other hand I find that the engine feels sublty 'happier' with the thinner oil, but any difference is so small I can't dismiss some degree of semi random placebo effect...

Regards,
John.

[Citroënbender]

Thank you both. I personally don't know what to think about the oil!

I'm leaning towards the Nulon sampling kit, I'd actually add it to the asking price as an asset (hard data).

Re the sump, I see the two special tools (parts 1.822.144.000 and 1.822.145.000) are about €30 together plus freight. Has anyone bought them? I'm not quite clear on whether they're long sockets or some sort of male/female extender of the machine screws.

I've stored the breaker while I finish a huge re-wiring job, plain out of car space! It did give up rear exterior door handles for the '01, whose handle pivots had massively corroded and stuck. Very impressed with how quick these were to swap.

[warsch]

First of all, manual for my 2002 156 says 10W-40 oil. So it's not like this oil is completely bad. While 10W-60 is better, I personally believe that changing oil on time or before and using full synt matters much more. Otherwise, rather than spend money on oil tests, you could just lower the price by the same amount. Buying 2nd hand engine is a lottery anyway, unless you take the engine apart.

[bazzbazz]

Isn't it the case that 60W oil was / is 'retro specified' mainly to address oil consumption issues with the TS engine? Is it not also true that 40W oils are listed in the handbook as being suitable?

Yes AND no, the change to 10w60 was to mainly to address Camshaft wear & Oil consumption.

Early 156 & 147 Twin-spark handbooks DID state 10w40 but later manuals the handbooks changed the specs to 10w60 for all Twin-sparks.
To my knowledge all 2.0 JTS were always 10w60.

The trick with these engines is to MAINTAIN the oil level, non enthusiast drivers have a tendency not to check the oil regularly and allow it to drop way too low, causing wear. (Every Alfa post sold post 2000 has a little sticker up on the drivers top corner stating this critical maintenance chore) Once the wear has started there is not much one can do about it except maintain the level, as once wear takers place, the lower you allow the oil to drop, the faster the consumption.

[johnl]

Thanks bazzbazz.

One of the 147s I looked at when looking at 147s had no oil evident on the dipstick. I didn't even bother to take it for a test drive...

Regards,
John.

[Citroënbender]

If we flop onto Mr Joy's chaise longue for another session and examine our gravest fears through the soothing fug of a Trabuco cigar - do the shells wear significantly ahead of the journals (meaning in this case, that one can theoretically linish/buff the journals and go std bearings once again) - or is it commonplace to find that +10 or +20 is called for? 

[johnl]

I don't really know, but most modern cranks seem to be very hard on the surface and rarely wear significantly, unlike many cranks of yore, most of which had a quite soft surface.

In the good old days it would have been unusual for a crank to not need a 'regrind' when rebuilding the engine, which was a common requirement (lots of cars had one or more engine rebuilds in their life. It would not have been unusual to find cranks that had been reground more than once. These days most engines easily outlast the car, and still have a lot of life left when the car is scrapped.

Regards,
John.

[Citroënbender]

Especially true in Australia, where a couple of dings in a fifteen year old car will earn it Statutory Write-Off designation.

[bazzbazz]

The shells should be marked with what thickness they are. As long as there has been no significant problem with the engine, run out of oil, con-rod issues ect, and there is no obvious damage to the crank just replace with new units of the original thickness fitted, which is normally standard 0.00. But make sure you confirm which shells are currently fitted.