Fuel Pump

[four90s]

Hi All,
A question for those who know; are the fuel pumps in the GTV/Spider different to the ones fitted to 156/147?

I have a 2000 TS GTV which has done 299,000k and I think it needs a new fuel pump as it's stopped and won't re-start.
A quick search on the forum here has plenty of good suggestions on fuel pumps, but no answer on this particular question, that I could find at least.

Cheers
Steve
Adelaide

[bonno]

Hi Steve
In answering your question the fuel pumps are different. The GTV and spider are the same but the 156 and 147 are different, refer to e-bay links and checks on compatibility of each model.

Fuel Pump Spider /GTV -  P/N 60655432
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-GENUINE-Electronic-Fuel-Pump-Assembly-For-Alfa-Romeo-GTV-Spider-AR916/122907000796?hash=item1c9dd3ffdc:g:TAwAAOSwMQBaMhTV  $315
Alfa Romeo 156 JTS - P.N BOSCH FP9336 fits
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Fuel-Pump-BOSCH-FP9336-fits-Alfa-Romeo-156-2-0-JTS-932/152736718143?epid=1138783273&hash=item238fd15d3f:g:ABUAAOSww1dZ2-Xg
Alfa Romeo 147 - 0 580 313 073
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Bosch-Fuel-Pump-Module-0-580-313-073-fits-Alfa-Romeo-147-2-0-16V-Twin-Spark/152748019633?fits=Make%3AAlfa+Romeo%7CModel%3A147&epid=1238835098&hash=item23907dcfb1:g:XqEAAOSwywRZ5tcz

[Cool Jesus]

You'll probably find it much cheaper and longer lasting to install an aftermarket pump?
I replaced one in my 916 Spider and it wasn't a hard job from memory. What do you mean its just stopped and won't restart?

[Citroënbender]

Re the no-start, my thoughts exactly!

[four90s]

Thanks for the input guys.

After a bit of too-ing and fro-ing, it seems like it might be the dreaded crank sensor.

Symptoms: Starts and runs until stuck in traffic then stops and won't start again for 30 - 60 minutes. Have got a CAS and will install.

I assumed as it had stopped and wouldn't re-start that it was the fuel pump, but when demonstrated for the RAA technician (after an hour) it ran for a while but only far enough to get to a mate's (non-Alfa) shop.

Battery was six years old and wouldn't hold charge so that was replaced and it looked good until peak hour traffic this morning.

Hopefully the sensor will fix it.

Cheers
Steve
Adelaide.

[bazzbazz]

Yes, it will be the Crank Sensor.

[four90s]

Thanks Bazz

Next question; where is the crank sensor on a TS?

My experience is mostly with the old non- Motronic V6 engines.

Cheers
Steve
Adelaide

[bazzbazz]

Firewall side of Engine, below the Starter Motor.

Google it for a photo.

[Cool Jesus]

Make sure the CAS is genuine OEM or quality brand. I found a super cheap Chinese replacement which only lasted 10K km or so. Only replaced it as a precaution due to age and mileage. Put the old one back in and it's still running fine as far as I know (spider was sold last year)

[johnl]

I think there are two or three different kinds of crankshaft / camshaft position sensors used on modern cars. At least one of these types is prone to a failure mode where they stop working when they get hot. The symptom is that the engine runs fine until the sensor temperature reaches X°, then it suddenly ceases to work. Once the temperature falls below X°, then the sensor starts to work again.

I've had this problem a couple of times with Honda engines. The symptoms match the symptoms being reported here. The tachometer may also cease to function since the failed sensor isn't giving the signal it needs to work, so when cranking the engine the tachometer needle may not even twitch...

Regards,
John.

[bonno]

The tachometer may also cease to function since the failed sensor isn't giving the signal it needs to work, so when cranking the engine the tachometer needle may not even twitch...

I think the NIL reading/registering of tachometer as indicated by John is probably on the MONEY for having a faulty Crankshaft Angle Sensor CAS. Additionally, the use of a multimeter can be used to check the serviceability of CAS and a quick search on Youtube, will result in several  "How To Check Crankshaft Angle Sensor". Did the Check Engine Light come on when this fault appeared ?
Cheers
bonno

[Citroënbender]

Trouble with a multimeter is it will only show the state of the winding. That's problematic if the fault takes the form of these CAS experiences where the coil is OK but the integrated magnet no longer is magnetic.

Reliably re-magnetising the sensors would be a nice thing!

[bazzbazz]

Yes, this is the reason why they fail but rarely show up on the Diagnostics. And also why they run fine when cold but fail when hot, its the magnet breaking down from continued heat saturation.

[Citroënbender]

The first time I'd encountered this sort of problem was on the 2 litre diesels used by both Ford and Peugeot in the early 2000s. Prior to that, the French CAS's seemed to last forever; 30+ years was normal.

[Cool Jesus]

It will show up on diagnostics once its fail with a stored DTC error, but may erase itself. I'll follow Bazz's experience on this point. I can say, the dash won't light up until it fails also, then disappears when its cooled down. On the 916 dash, I think, from memory, its the injector looking symbol, I think???