2000 156 TS - new timing belt whining

[MattK]

Hi all - after my 156 TS muffler saga I decided to get the timing belts, idlers, balance shaft belt and seals, acc belt, water pump replaced since there was no record of that in the service history, and the car's done 178k km. A pretty solid chunk of change later, I drove off. But the new belt(s) whine quite loudly. Will they break in and settle down, or should I take it back for re-tensioning do you think?
Thanks for any advice / experience.
Cheers, Matthew.

[Citroënbender]

Hi Matt,

Not sure if you know but the tensioners are "floating" on these belts, so long as the pointer mostly aligns with the datum mark it's OK. They can be hard to view square on, due to limited space between the engine and longeron.

[poohbah]

If its not too far out of your way to do it, why not just pop back to the workshop? If it's whining, it should be a quick, easy (and free) on the spot aural diagnosis. At very least should give you peace of mind after forking out all that spondulah.

[bazzbazz]

Ok, just one question, the workshop that did the belts, did they use camlocks?
Do they own camlocks? If they dont do this sort of work on Alfas regulary it's unlikely they have a set. (Hopefully I am wrong & just paranoid)

If camlocks were not used it will could explain the whine.

[MattK]

Apologies - missed that reply. These guys do Alfas all day long (Fogarty Automotive down here) and the whine has quieted. Covered about 500km on a trip since then, and no issues at all.

[johnl]

Maybe the belt, either cam or auxillary, is rubbing against the plastic timing belt cover? I've had this happen with my previous car (Accord), sounded a bit like a supercharger belt whine (but not as loud). It quieted down in time because the auxillary belt abraded the plastic away (making a hole), so rubbing and noise stopped. I'm fairly sure the cover wasn't in quite the right position due to a crack in the plastic.

Regards,
John.

[MattK]

I think it was just general tightness - the mechanic said the previous belts were not correctly tensioned.
Now my clutch is on the way out! Brake fluid reservoir is full, worries me that it might be the &^%$ing slave cylinder.

[Citroënbender]

If thine clutch is worn it will slip, if it's contaminated it will slip or judder. If the release bearing is finished or improperly bled, it will be hard to shift and may grind.

[johnl]

Attempted to bleed my clutch yesterday (after changing the brake fluid). Mostly I just wanted clean fluid in there, but suspected maybe there might be a small amount of trapped air since my clutch needs a full pedal push all the way to the floor for clean gear shifts (not always, its a bit erratic). What little fluid came out was quite dirty.

It's supposed to 'self bleed' when the clutch hose fitting is pulled out about 5mm to the 'click' (after removing the wire clip). It sort of did, but the flow was very, very, very slow. I think I might have seen a few small bubbles come out, but hard to say (with bright sunshine outside the engine bay, and dimness inside the engine bay). Anyway, I didn't manage to get clean fluid exiting the system, it was taking way too long. The orifice might be partially blocked. Next attempt I'm going to try sucking the old fluid out with a large syringe.

Regards,
John.

[bazzbazz]

It will only self bleed if you are using a Pressure Bleeder.

[johnl]

It will only self bleed if you are using a Pressure Bleeder.

Never used one, don't own one. My plan is to apply suction at the nipple, so hopefully in this way gravity acting on the planets' atmosphere will act as a pressure bleeder...

I had read that it was supposed to 'self bleed' upon opening the valve in the hose. Apparently this is wishful thinking...

Regards,
John.

[Citroënbender]

My plan is to apply suction at the nipple...

Oh dear; what a turn of phrase. My mind went out the window for a bit. 

Readily bought for $150 online:

http://www.sptools.com/en/product-list-2014/specialty-tools-workshop-and-lighting/brake-and-clutch/pressure-brake-bleeder-kits/brake-and-clutch-pressure-bleeding-kit.html

There are things pressure bleeders will do, that suction systems simply cannot. The reason pressure bleeders are still gaining prominence, is that workshops and mechanics often need one-on-one convincing to "give it a go". It's not just the time saving of being able to pump it up to 3 Bar, pop all four corners on stands, and knowing you won't bleed the reservoir dry getting 300ml of fluid out each corner (which takes one person all of ten minutes this way).  It's how the pressure will drive trapped air through steadily to the purge point, unlike "Pump it up! Push it through! Hold it down!" method bleeding.  With the Alfa clutch hardline, there is also an anti-hammer chamber on the nearside longeron, which hasn't yet been mentioned - not sure if this is also an air trap but reckon it has potential.

[johnl]

My plan is to apply suction at the nipple...

Oh dear; what a turn of phrase. My mind went out the window for a bit. 

Believe it or not, the double entendre didn't occur to me when I wrote that (that's my story, and I'm sticking to it...).

Readily bought for $150 online:

I have no reason to doubt their utility, but for 150 'readies' I think I'll try my way first (suck it and see, literally).

Regards,
John.

[johnl]

With the Alfa clutch hardline, there is also an anti-hammer chamber on the nearside longeron, which hasn't yet been mentioned - not sure if this is also an air trap but reckon it has potential.

My Accord had one of these things. For a long time I found the clutch action a bit odd, sometmes the clutches' response to pedal travel didn't feel consistent or linear. On occasion I'd feel that the pedal had been released enough that the clutch should be have been strongly engaged, but when I let it out the rest of the way there would be a 'lurch' in power transmission because it was actually still slipping as the remainder of the pedal travel was released and the throttle pedal pushed harder. I'd occasionally get a bit 'lost' in the degree to which the pedal travel / position correlated to clutch engagement, resulting in a clumsy gear shift.

I by-passed the 'clutch damper' and the problem pretty much disappeared, the clutch action became quite a bit more consistent...

Regards,
John.

[johnl]

OK, today I 'vacuum bled' the clutch using a large syringe and a plastic tube. Bazzbazz, you were right, it didn't work all that well, though a bit better than gravity 'non-bleeding'. I managed to get enough fliud through that I was seeing significantly cleaner fluid coming into the plastic tube. Lots and lots of bubbles too, but I'm quite sure that this is because the valve leaks and allows air to get in.

But some joy, while the pedal feels much the same, the quality of the shift action has improved significantly (lightened up), so at least some of the bubbles must have come from inside the system...

MattK, apologies for the comprehensive hijacking of your thread, mostly my fault I think...

Regards,
John.