147 TS (05) Gear shifter sitting to the left after replacement

[ugame]

EDIT: I just want to open this thread by saying that the workshop used are GREAT and know their stuff. Just seems on this day, stuff didn't line up for whatever reason.
The net result is, the car drives wonderfully now./edit.

Treated the 147 to some TLC.

New plastic shifter assembly thing.
New cables.
All fitted by my Alfa guy.
Contents of wallet removed successfully.

Now.......
It is normal after replacing the above for the shifter to sit too much to one side or the other for a while?

I've been given the advice to "drive it for a couple of weeks and see how it settles" which I will do.

What I'm seeing is the stick when in neutral, is leaning to the left rather than being upright.
Thus, first is a bus ride over to the left, and 5th/reverse are "central".

Is this something that will "settle in" or should I push for it to be adjusted sooner?

[Citroënbender]

Can't adjust the gearbox ends to centre it better?

[ugame]

I assume it could be.

Are there adjusters only at the GB end or also at the shifter end?

I didn't really want to touch it myself as I've paid good money to have it done professionally.

I'd rather they adjust it.

[Citroënbender]

I think they're only at the gearbox end.

[ugame]

Cheers. If that's the case I'll kick it back to the workshop then.

I dont see how this would correct itself over time by settling, unless new cables stretch a little?

[johnl]

The cables won't stretch.

I'm not sure if the cable lengths are adjustable, at least the ones on my 147 aren't. My cables have the plastic cable ends (socket joints), I vaguely recall that I might have seen a photo of either 147 or maybe 156 cables with metal ends, perhaps these are adjustable?

It might be worth checking that the sheath of the cable (the one nearer the firewall in the engine bay, and to the right under the tunnel, which is the cable that moves with lateral lever movement) is correctly attached in its' brackets? I don't know if it is possible for the sheath to be incorrectly fitted to the brackets at either end without the sheath falling out, but perhaps?

With my cables, at the gearbox end I've deleted the plastic socket joints and replaced them with all metal female spherical rod ends. To do this I cut off the plastic ends (cutting through the plastic, not the metal rod), and threaded the rods to suit the spherical rod ends. Partly this was to eliminate play in the plastic sockets, but it also provides a degree of adjustability for the lever position. I'd have done the same for the other ends of the cables (shifter end), but the cable rods are significantly thinner at that end and I'd have had to use teeny weeny incy wincy little rod ends...

Regards,
John.

[Citroënbender]

In this link, they show in the first picture, one of the length-adjustable rod ends.

http://www.alfaworkshop.co.uk/Alfa_147_GT_156_Gear_selector_plate_removal.shtml

I have similar on my 147, perhaps it was deleted for a bit?  The genuine cable sets now sold, appear to have these adjustable heads on at least one end of one cable. 

[ugame]

Thanks again guys.

Had a look again during lunch break to ensure I'm not being stupid/picky. We even took the boot off to see what moves where.

It's not "upright" when centred. It's leaning left.

The result truly is that to get 1st and 2nd gear, the lever is pushed to the extremities to the left within the housing.

To reach 5th or reverse, the lever sits "center", leaving plenty of room in the housing to the right for the shifter to move, if the cables allowed it (which they dont).

[johnl]

In this link, they show in the first picture, one of the length-adjustable rod ends.

http://www.alfaworkshop.co.uk/Alfa_147_GT_156_Gear_selector_plate_removal.shtml

I have similar on my 147, perhaps it was deleted for a bit?  The genuine cable sets now sold, appear to have these adjustable heads on at least one end of one cable.

My cable ends looked the same (as the ones on the linked page) where they fitted over the balls, but quite different where the rod inserts. Adjustability is always a 'good thing', pity so many modern cars seem to have fewer and fewer adjustable parts...

Regards,
John.

[bazzbazz]

Thanks again guys.

Had a look again during lunch break to ensure I'm not being stupid/picky. We even took the boot off to see what moves where.

It's not "upright" when centred. It's leaning left.

The result truly is that to get 1st and 2nd gear, the lever is pushed to the extremities to the left within the housing.

To reach 5th or reverse, the lever sits "center", leaving plenty of room in the housing to the right for the shifter to move, if the cables allowed it (which they dont).

In that case I would suggest that one of two problems could cause this-

1/ The Gear stick side mount has come out of the plastic bush, thus pushing the gear stick over.

2/ There is a small bracket that clips on to both cables just forward of where they clip onto the gear stick, if this is not fitted onto both cables properly it will also cause a similar effect.

Take a look here to get an idea about both - http://www.alfaworkshop.co.uk/parts/147_Gear_lever.shtml

[ugame]

So given both the plastic assembly and cables were brand new, which is the more likely, and I assume they'd require the removal of the whole assembly to rectify?

[johnl]

There will always be at least some unwanted movement in the shifter (i.e. the lever and socket part of the mechanism), even a new one. This is mostly because the socket is made from relatively soft plasticl, which flexes slightly with the loads imparted by the force required to change gears, enough to be significant. It might not feel like much force is required to change gears, but keep in mind that the lever is quite long and there is a lot of leverage involved, so the socket sees a lot more force than is exerted by the driver on the end of the lever.

If the cable (the one that is moved by lateral throw of the lever) has an adjustment for length at one end, and if that adjustable end is the end that attaches to the gearbox, then I think you should be able to adjust the cable length without needing to fully remove anything. If so, then if you disconnect the cable end socket from the ball that it attaches to, then you should be able to make the adjustment. Maybe by rotating the cable end on the rod? (assuming I understand how this thing is likely to be designed, though I may not since I haven't actually seen these adjustable cables, only the non adjustable ones, so I'm guessing a bit...).

Regards,
John.

[Citroënbender]

(Just watching my kitty "catch and kill" the curtain tieback ribbons. He's a thug but a cutie.)

The adjustment of this type cable end is usually via a slideable toothed inner and clipped in fixing "rack". You disengage the clip, slide the two pieces relative to one another (within limits) and press the fixing clip home.

[ugame]

Well the car is back at the workshop so I'll keep you posted.

It's not about "movement" but about the location being offset to the left.....on a lean in neutral and hence all gears way leftward of where you'd normally find them.

And I'm not talking a small amount as expanded on before. 1st is as far left as you could possibly imagine. Think about how some cars reverse is an EXTRA push to the left....that's where first is hiding now. Hence 5th is where you'd expect neutral to be.

So no....not "movement". It's nice and snug and no longer feels like I'm stirring porridge to find a gear

But yes...back at the shop today.

[johnl]

A worn shifter won't cause the lever to change position as you describe, only to make the shift action loose and sloppy. Assuming the cable sheath ferrules are correctly located in the shifter plate and gearbox mounts, the only reasonably likely thing that could cause the lever to be oriented as you describe is for one of the cables to be the wrong length (or for the shifter body to have broken and moved, but I think this is hugely unlikely). Another unlikely thing would be that the new shifter is in some way different to your old shifter, but I strongly doubt this.

I'd pay attention to what Citroënbender said re how the cable length is adjusted.

Regards,
John.