New member looking for a 105 2000 GTV

[Tim Jobson]

Colin the guy was in another world because he was asking 12K for it!, not even worth 7k I recon.

One other thing was it seemed to backfire alot on deceleration, is it normal for 105s!, the owner said it showed that the timing was spot on, yet I bet!, and I was lucky to stop the car as it seemed to have little brakes, again he said it was due to a faulty brake booster, would this be correct?

I have just spotted another one for $3000 as an unliced rusty wreck with a good interior, I wonder if it would make a good parts car? or are parts easy and better to buy new.

Regards TCJ

[Davidm1600]

Tim

It sounds dodgy to me !!! $12k for a resto, who is he kidding apart from himself. No a 105 should not be backfiring on de-acceleration.  It could be something simple like a shot muffler or exhaust or possibly worse, ie. engine problems/timing ??  If the brakes were dodgy that too is not good, could be problems with the brake master cylinder (ie. brake booster), air in lines, slave cylinder, amount of brake lining left etc.  Both of these issues should be checked out properly by a qualified mechanic. Preferably someone who knows Alfas.

Buying a $3K rusty wreck, while possibly a little expensive, even if it has a good interior, could be worth it if perhaps the gearbox or engine etc is in good condition, and also external trims.  As I previously mentioned and others have, the availability of new parts is not a problem, albeit costly.  In the end it comes down to your budget, how much work you can do or not. Bodywork is expensive if you have to pay someone, ditto mechanicals and trim. 

To give you an example, my Super's restoration cost me $2.5K to cut out all the rust and replace panels, paint stripping and a crap paint job which cost me more $K (dont want to think about it).  I had the seats, dash and door panels rebuilt and trimmed in Connolly leather $2.5K, new and 2nd parts (lights, rubbers, trim etc) from variety of sources easily $1K.  Gearbox rebuild $1.1K just for parts (I was lucky a mate did it for free).  Still need to sort out the painting (again), an engine (mate owes me one), suspension easily $2.5K, electricals, carpet and sundry items and then put it all together.  Total cost est for the project $12-15K and that is by doing as much as I can.  To pay someone to totally rebuild it you probably could double it.  Good luck with the hunt.  Cheers Dave

[Tim Jobson]

Thanks Dave for details about your own experience with 105 restoration, I am also the sort of guy that will try to do as much of the work myself until professional help is called on.    I note you also have had experience with Fiats.     I have had a collection including a 850 sport, 128 SL, 124 Sport CC, and a 2000 Spider, so I am familiar (unfortunately used a Mig welder on many occasions) with rusty Italian metal work.

I do not want a full resto project, probably one that I can do a rolling resto with if necessary!

Can you tell me why 105s are a bit twitchy in the rear in the rain?    Also can some one explain what rear suspension 2000 GTV 105s have and is it call an independant rear?   

Regards TCJ

[len105]

Tim
In my view, 105's are an absolute delight to drive anytime.......until you push just a little bit, and then the rear wants to catch up with the front & you get this experience you call........"twitchy"......and as far the rain goes.............the moment you think you have it covered, is the moment that it becomes incredibly "twitchy" again......

Cheers
Len

[Pete Y]

Can you tell me why 105s are a bit twitchy in the rear in the rain?    Also can some one explain what rear suspension 2000 GTV 105s have and is it call an independant rear?   

Hi tim.

105s have a live rear axle, which although it is quite well located and quite heavy duty, still can't get away from the fact that it is, exactly that - a live axle rear end. In many senses too, they are actually quite powerful cars for their size (approx 100kw/1000kg) and with a weight bias towards the front, so it is quite easy (more so in a coupe) to get the unloaded rear end to play tricks. The LSD is a helpful addition, but doesn't really fix the problem - it will simply stop the inside wheel spinning on a mid corner bump, or might straighten the line on damp patch, but being an LSD, it still needs power running through it to work effectively - and they do wear.

I found all this out from personal experience, being a little too eager on a damp freeway on-ramp one April afternoon. Tail came around, I hit the wall with the front, then kept spinning and hit it with the back too to finish the job. Still, this didnt put me off 105s, and I have to say that in their defence, in the dry they really are magnificent. I remember one night with my 1750 Berlina (which is even better balanced than the coupes), going unbelievably fast around a rather famous and interesting piece of riverside boulevard here in Melbourne and just being astonished at how well this 40 year old 3-box sedan goes, stops and steers.

One criticism is that controls in the 105 are a little bit heavy, but drive one fast and it makes SO much sense. The steering just comes alive and is so communicative, the brakes take a big shove but slow commendably and with minimal fade and the gearbox and clutch are just perfectly suited. After that night I understood 105s so much better - they are meant to be driven fast and with gusto.

Here's the results of that on-ramp btw.

[Davidm1600]

Yeouch Pete, that would have hurt !!!   Have to agree with all you say re the 105 coupes.  Having lived with my 1750 GTV for the past 12 years now, I know how entertaining they can be in the wet.  In the dry and on some lovely bendy roads they really come into their own.  I also agree with your comments on the Berlina.  In my view, I reckon these are highly undervalued and/or appreciated by many 105 owners.  I have a real soft spot for the 1750.  I enjoyed my 2L Berlina and was sorry to see it go.  Regrettably it is a wreck now.  There seem to be so few left now which is a pity.   The Super is similar in many ways but being shorty possibly not as well balanced.  I dont have a lot of experience with them so perhaps someone might suggest otherwise.  Hopefully when mine is finished I will get to finally find out how good they are.

Tim, yes I have owned/restored a few Fiats 124 sedan, AC 124 sport (owned for past 27 years), 125 Special, 130 sedan.  My family also had a 132, but it is my brother who has the Fiat collection, including 600s (x2), multiplas (x2), 850s(x2), 124 coupes (x4), and 130s sedans & coupes (x8).  This is only part of a huge collection of classic cars (at last count over 70), which also includes Alfas, Lancia, Range Rovers, Mecerdes, Jaguars, Rileys, and Borgwards.  He is a little eccentric.  Cheers Dave

[Colin Byrne]

As Pete says 105's use a solid axle rear.  Most of the setup is fairly standard, coil over shocks and lower trailing arms.  However the lateral location is a little different, the axle is located by a large T piece that is mounted, and can pivot on, the chassis rails.  The T piece connects to the top of the differential and provides both lateral support and stops the axle rocking  backwards or forwards on the lower trailing arms.  With good quality, new bushes the system does work very well but there are some drawbacks.  Due to having only one top mounting point axle tramp can be an problem during heavy breaking but the biggest issue is that the point that the T-Piece connects determines the Rear Roll-Centre of the car.  As this point is at the top of the diff the rear roll centre is relatively high and as theses cars also have a very low front roll centre the roll axis that is created is not ideal, these properties also contribute to the "twichyness" of 105's .  And just a quick point, while LSD's are great the can contribute significantly to oversteer, because rather than just the inside wheel spinning, both wheels are able to, this increase in longitudinal slip of the rear tires significantly reduces the available lateral grip, less rear lateral grip = more oversteer.

[alfagtv58]

Sheesh Colin, anyone would think you're an engineer or something!!!

Seriously, its always interesting to read your explanations......I makes me realise exactly what I really know about setting up a car properly, absolutely nothing!

[Tim Jobson]

Thanks guys for enlightening me on the rear set ups of 105s.     I have seen some books where they said that the 2000 105 GTVs had LSD, was this a standard fit or only an optional extra?

I have also seen some of the 105s for sale indicating that they have independant suspension, would they ony be referring to the front or is the rear able to be modified to be independant?

Regards driving in the rain with a 105, well I never like driving when its wet so I will hopefully never push my luck when I get my wheels.!

Regards TCJ 

[pep105]

Yeah Tim the 2000 GTV had LSD as standard fit and the ratio was 4.1:1.
The rear end is a well located live axle as the boys have stated with their informative explainations (is your car fixed yet Pete ?)
so any ads would have to be referring to the front end only.

Yes can vouch for entertainment in the wet my little Junior with its stocko 1600 donk lites them up like you wouldnt believe in the wet if your not careful with the throttle, and its 34 year old non LSD diff spins one wheel (usually the right) then the left gets involved sometimes as well

The 2 litre is a nice package with the most power and torque and LSD as final refinements on these magnificent alfas, just in the wet they need a lover with a slow hand.
Cheers
Pep

[Pete Y]

Nah I sold the wreck just over 2 years ago.

Car is actually currently on Ebay, having been fixed up. Very overpriced though.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ALFA-ROMEO-1974-GTV-2000-GTA-LOOK-RWC-GREAT-INVEST_W0QQitemZ200237757114QQihZ010QQcategoryZ35227QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Ads]

Just read through this thread, and wanted to thank the guys with the experience and knowledge sharing their thoughts on driving 105's.  Very informative fellas.