3.0 24 Valve V6 into my Lexus IS200

[Citroënbender]

What's the timeline for the project? Looking forward to work starting in earnest.

[Ahsoka]

Do you own an IS200 Mr Duk or have you ever ??
Do you have a spare IS200 in YOUR workshop that you have had non standard  engines sitting in ??
Why are you commenting on a subject when you do not even own the car that is being discussed ??
How many Lexus/Toyota V6 engines have you had personal experience with ??
Are you stupid or just pretending to be stupid ??
Why not stick to the title of the post ??
Did you even think to ask why I think its too big and unsuitable compared to the Busso V6 ??
Or are you just one of THOSE type of posters who stir up trouble ??
You seem to have a very condescending mightier than thou attitude with very little to back it up .
I'm out here actually doing it and thought it might be of note to other Alfa V6 owners that there well might be another alternative to the poorly engineered Alfa cam belt system for those fitting one in a rear wheel drive configuration .
You seem to be doing a Ground Hog Day type thing on the fact that I consider a particular V6 too big to fit easily in my IS200 .
What the hell does it matter to you ??
I'm a little over people who think they can post what they like and get away with it .
My apologies to the admin .

[Ahsoka]

The time line is as soon as practicable but then that's always the case !!
I have already mocked up all the 1UZ tensioner system and cam belt pulleys and know what size and thickness of alloy plate I'll need to replace the Alfa cast one .
Cannot do much about grinding the 1UZ cam pulley mount on the Alfa cams til I actually get the 3.0 engine [ should pick it up in about 3 weeks ].
Trying to sell the 156 auto I have , but if I cannot I'll cut the front part off to use as a part of the adapter .
I'm so hesitant to cut up a perfectly good gearbox !!
I will if I have to and getting a broken manual box looks like it will not happen , the auto box owes me nothing so that might well be the way it will go .
I expect to have the engine sitting in place front engine mounts done by Christmas .
It helps I have a spare chassis that will enable me to get it to turn key before swapping it into my daily .
As far as engine swaps go this one is relatively simple especially as the block was made for a rear wheel drive car originally , for instance it still has three North/South engine mount studs sticking out of the block on both sides...handy !!
I cannot wait to do the exhaust as there will be so much room I will nearly be able to stand in the engine bay alongside the engine to do it !!
I have learnt over the years to double the expected timeline as unforeseen things generally pop up .
However I'm quite proud that my last 4 or so swaps went pretty much to plan .
The last swap that went a bit long was down to the owner , he fitted new head gaskets in the 1UZ before I received the engine to fit into a Cressida and put one on inverted , so when we cranked it up the head gasket leaked , eventually had to pull the engine to get the heads off and all was revealed !!
I'll update as things happen with pics .
I must say I'm pretty excited about the cam pulley and tensioner mod , it's all looking like its meant to be , course we will have to wait till its running and has a few K's up to see if it will really work as expected !!

[Rising Sun]

Personally, I do like things which are a bit different. Personally not my cuppa tea, but hey, we are all different! One thing is for sure, if your choosing an engine based purely on sound, well I think you've made the right choice.

I am intrigued with the tensioner mods and look forward to hearing updates on that. Am I right in saying that cost is the prohibitive factor in not going for a 3.2?

[scott.venables]

Interesting project! 

One question, why grind the cam noses down when you could (presumably) bore out the pulleys? Or even a combination of boring the pulleys and machining a bush to adapt to the cams?  Means you could go for performance cams later down the track without having to modify them, also if you were interested, marketing the pulleys and tensioner as a kit would be more attractive because people could use their standard cams. 

I wouldn't want to modify a standard part in a way that meant another Alfa owner couldn't use it in their car if I didn't finish the project either. You seem pretty committed to this project but I've got enough unfinished projects that it would make me uncomfortable.

Cheers,
Scott

[Craig_m67]

Fuck me... seriously, it's the internet - we all wish you well with the project and want to see and hear how unfolds.  Don't let a "little_miss" communication ruin your weekend

Now, more freaking importantly- who can answer my Kia/Hyundai question.  You're all to JDM/import knowledgeable to not have some sort of lead for me...

Other than that, carry on. I want to see a Busso in a nicely frocked Toyota just like the next guy




Actually, Bazz.. can we stick one in the Grand Carnival, might be cheaper/simpler

[Citroënbender]

Craig: Fold down the back row of seats, open the hatch, lay down a few sheets of thick cardboard and hoick it in there with the engine crane. Close hatch and job done. You didn't say it needed to be hooked up.

Per the subject engine swap, I'm still trying to think through the ECU mash-up. A potential sticking point could be the RPM input if the impulse generation uses different tooth counts. Also while immo off isn't a big deal I'm not sure how the Alfa ECU can be edited to work in the absence of CAN dialogue. This is not saying it can't be done, I just want to know how it's best done!

[Ahsoka]

Correct Mr Sun the 3.2 is waaay outside my budget and not really bothered as the 3.0 has a slightly shorter stroke also .
I'm like you a bit Mr Scott in being hesitant to mod something that cannot be undone .
However the taper is a pain especially if you have to reproduce it internally and I feel that for Alfa it was a simple/cheap solution to a problem they created themselves .
The 1uz cam snout is simple and all you need and at a cost of around $60 per cam very cost effective , it would also be relatively easy to buy a vernier cam pulley system for the Alfa V6 and just adapt the 1uz cam pulley to that .
I very recently did the timing belt on a mates IS300 which has a twin cam straight 3.0 2JZ 6 in it , just line up the marks on the cam pulleys which i take past the marks a tiny bit so that when you move them back it means there is no slack in the drive side of the belt  , have the engine at top dead center using the marks on the crank drive pulley fit the tensioner and pull the pin that holds the spring tension in and viola... done , that easy .
Yes by having a taper you can actually dial in the cam timing between cams on the same head and between the heads but how many owners actually do that ?
And how many owners do that after a new cam belt has stretched a bit after 5000 K's ??
Not many Aunt Penny !!
Having spent a bit of time looking at the 2.5 engine I have on the stand I feel the crux of Alfa's cam belt problems stem from the lack of wrap and all the other associated issues stem from that .
With questionable wrap you then have to have extra belt tension for the start up of the engine which is when a belt is most likely to jump and another follow on is the need to have the tensioner static with no movement for a bit of " give "
That complicates the tensioner design in that you then have to have some way of lessening the tension on the belt for normal running and I believe hydraulic tensioners and Bi-metal springs have all been tried with not great success .
I kinda really don't want to be critical but the tensioner I took of the 2.5 V6 is rubbish !!
In reality the whole engineering of the cam belt system is very poor and consequently we see all these failures .
The thing I find most annoying about this is that it could have been so easily changed after the fact !!
After all everything is just bolted on .
If you compare the strong rigid components in a 2J or a 1UZ engine cam belt system or even  my 1g-fe engine you just wonder what the Alfa engineers where thinking or even if they where thinking at all .
It's almost like two different sets of engineers designed this engine , the engine itself is close to brilliant [ after all I like it so much I'm gonna put one in my IS !! ], then after that a brain dead set of engineers designed the cam belt system !!
Anyhow getting off subject a bit again .
As a note when I bought my IS200 it had 146,000 K's on it and the belt service life was 150,000 K's .
I was just going over the car as one does when you get a new to me secondhand car , I was debating whether to pull of the top of the timing cover to check and was thinking why bother I'll be doing a new belt in a month or so anyhow .
I then thought what the heck its 3 6mm screws why not .
WELL the top cover was full of this black cotton wool type stuff, about 6 tonnes of it !!
Apparently the bush in the arm that tensioner pully runs on wears a bit and side loads the belt which trims itself eventually down to nothing !!
My cam belt was 7 mm wide when it's supposed to be 26 mm wide !!
Apparently about 4 years after the car was first released they changed the service interval to 100,00 K's for obvious reasons .
My point is that although the belt was only 7 mm wide IT STILL DID NOT BREAK !!
Because decent wrap was designed in the tension on the belt could also be substantially less plus the tensioner pulley swings on a short arm which allows a bit of give so the belt isn't loaded up on start up .
That design philosophy is what I am attempting to fit to my Alfa V6 .

Mr Curve please one thing at a time !!
Yes correct the pick up on the crank sensor might be an issue , does it pick up from the pulley or from a dedicated timing plate ??
I will have to check that out...however a problem for the future !!

[Citroënbender]

Any progress, or is it moving quickly as my '60s truck restoration project? 

[Ahsoka]

Yep exactly !!
Only real progress is lots of thought type stuff and as these things always go , long periods of zilch [ or so it seems ] and then a lot happens in a short time !!
I've had to wreck out the rest of the 156 to keep the wife happy....chassis needs to be goneski before Christmas .
Currently just had a set of Swift coilover springs arrive for the rear coilovers and now I can actually fit them to the car , I have been running around with coilovers on the front and chopped springs with standard shocks on the rear , finally got real shitty at the rear upsetting the front when near the limit .
Finally invested $300 in some swift springs for the rear as the ones that came on the shocks where way too soft and no doubt having worlds best springs on the rear will induce me to fit same on the front !!
Anyhow I have spent a lot of time looking at the front of the Busso V6 which is on an engine stand plus doing a lot of measuring .
I will definitely have the 1uz cam pulley mount profile ground onto the Alfa cams , it is the easiest simplest solution and also relatively cheap , I thought a lot about keeping the taper but I feel this causes a lot of the problems , if there where a heap of V6 owners who actually use this to dial the cams in after the initial new belt stretch I might have thought differently .
However I bet there are very few who actually do this and those that do would probably buy and fit a vernier type set-up and this is what I will do down the track if I feel its necessary .
You can buy vernier set ups for the 1uz however initially I will set it all up and then positively locate the pulleys onto the cam shaft .
Most probably with a scotch key done in a mill with an end mill .
I have calculated that a 16 mm alloy plate of 6061 will be more than sufficient to replace the cast plate on that's bolted to the front  of the engine if i need any extra thickness for mounting pulleys and such like I will simply weld bosses on and then mill to suit , however if i can avoid welding by going slightly thicker in the plate I will even though it increases the cost a lot .
I will update when I have something to show .

[Ahsoka]

an update of sorts !!
I pick up my 3.0 24 valve engine on Saturday morning...very appy .
Have also acquired a set of non cat headers that have the bigger diameter runners that end straight so very suitable for RWD , they will save about 3 days of fab work .
I'm also rethinking how to go about fitting the 1uz cam pulleys onto the Alfa cam shafts .
It would still be easier to just have the 1uz end ground straight onto the Alfa camshafts and probably cheaper also .
However after having a chat with an Alfa guy he noted that he would probably fit that system but not if he had to pull his camshafts out to have them ground .
So if I had a CNC plate made up with a spigot to suit the 1uz pulleys that then bolted to the taper on the front of the Alfa camshafts then possibly a lot more people would go for it .
As a note the fact that the Alfa camshafts are different lengths on the left and right heads and the pulleys have an offset so that they line up the same....well guess what ??
The 1uz pulleys also have an offset and when you reverse them they line up perfectly !!!
Well within about 0.5 mm or better .
How about that !!!!
This just gets better and better .

[carlo rossi]

WHY? are you on the right forum ?
might I suggest 日本のレクサスクラブ
they would be really excited!!

or restore a real classic and get more out of it, and it actually is worth something at the end!
I beseech you to look into classic italian ownership not a butchershop

[Craig_m67]

I'm interested, ignore the haters 

[Citroënbender]

I'm happily following this.

It doesn't mean I'd do it, but the formulaic nature of so much hotrodding personally puts me off that path - so the offbeat and individualistic catches my attention instead.

[Ahsoka]

A small update .The 3.0 engine is now on a stand so a fair bit of thinkering and measuring has been going on .
Had a good chat with the boss of the cylindrical grinding place and we decided that grinding the 1uz cam pulley profile straight onto the end of the Alfa camshaft is the way to go at least for mine the first one .
Its relatively cheap and easy which is a good way to go to prove the fact .
He also suggested using  2jz cam pulleys as they are the same 48 teeth as the 1uz pulleys and you can buy vernier 2jz pulleys quite cheaply , he also informed me that the Evil Bay 2jz pulleys are quite ok .
Alfa auto box has been stripped leaving me with the start of a bell hosing adapter , still have to cut the front bit off with a 9 inch though !!