Alternative Manual Gearboxes for the 939 Series

[WTBalfabrera]

During my research to find a Brera, I have noticed that the gearboxes used on the Brera's and 159's aren't as good as they should be. The M32 gearbox used in the 1.75, 1.9, 2.2 and 2.4's appears to be prone to bearing failures in fifth and six. In addition to this the F40 used in the 3.2's appears to be reliable though has issues engaging and holding second and third.

I was wondering if these gearboxes can be replaced with better alternatives to make a more well rounded car?

When using a different gearbox do other components also need to be changed such as the clutch, flywheel, etc... ?

Also does using a different gearbox result in different gear ratios and therefore do other things also need to be changes such as the engine mapping?

I was thinking that with the 3.2's this may be more difficult to find an alternative for as they are AWD. Would gearboxes that are typically fitted to other AWD performance cars such as Impreza's or Audi's be suitable replacements?

This will be the first car I will be able to start trying to learn to fix and change myself (with quite a bit of help of course, don't want to ruin it), so I will appreciate any experienced advice.

Cheers.

[bazzbazz]

The F40 gearbox in the 3.2 Brera is fine, and no, without rebuilding/engineering the entire car, you can't swap it out for something else.

Just remember, when researching on the internet, you will always hear more horror stories than praise, simply because its human nature to speak about things going wrong, because when things go right, well, that's they way it's supposed to be, so why would we say anything. 

[bazzbazz]

This will be the first car I will be able to start trying to learn to fix and change myself (with quite a bit of help of course, don't want to ruin it), so I will appreciate any experienced advice.

Ahhhh, NO! NO! . . . .and NO!   

This is NOT the type of car one buys to learn how to tinker and work on cars. If you want to learn/hone your DIY Alfa skills, go buy a low mileage ALfa 147/156 and maintain that for a couple of years.

Trying to do so on a 3.2 Brera will just end up with you paying people like me, twice as much as it would have cost you to have me do the work/maintenance in the first place.

Anyone here disagree? ( Go on, I dares ya!  )

[Craig_m67]

This will be the first car I will be able to start trying to learn to fix and change myself (with quite a bit of help of course, don't want to ruin it), so I will appreciate any experienced advice.

Anyone here disagree? ( Go on, I dares ya!  )

Piece of p#ss init... how hard can it be, it's gotta GM donk!!

(Come change my oil - iystalion donk)

[bazzbazz]

Been drinking AGAIN have we? 

[WTBalfabrera]

Thank you for the replies, changing gearboxes is obviously not a good idea and would be more trouble than its worth. Don't worry bazzbazz I wasn't thinking of doing anything major myself like a gearbox, that would definitely end in tears. I was planning to learn how to do things such as change the oil myself so I could do it more regularly and save some servicing costs (or is that a bad idea too?).

From what you're saying is the M32 a reliable gearbox? That's been the only thing stopping me from considering 1750's. It's good to know that the F40 does work well.

[Craig_m67]

I've done 144,750km in 1750tbi (Giulietta)... all flat out in D.
Gearbox just works, indeed I don't think I've ever had even a grumble of concern from it
(same clutch too, touch wood)

Never had an issue with the box in my 156JTD (same box as the GTA).   I think gearboxes are the least of your worries, there are other known issues for each make/model if you want to get ahead of the maintenance curve - pick a car/donk (Brera 1750tbi.. did we even get them, the odd 159 sedan perhaps?)

* I don't really drink these days.


If you buy a 1750tbi, Bazz will have to change the oil.. it's the rules

[bazzbazz]

The M32 gearbox does have some issues occasionally (Keep the oil level up)

To my knowledge we never got the 1750TBi with the Brera here in Oz.

[afelice001]

This will be the first car I will be able to start trying to learn to fix and change myself (with quite a bit of help of course, don't want to ruin it), so I will appreciate any experienced advice.

Ahhhh, NO! NO! . . . .and NO!   

This is NOT the type of car one buys to learn how to tinker and work on cars. If you want to learn/hone your DIY Alfa skills, go buy a low mileage ALfa 147/156 and maintain that for a couple of years.

Trying to do so on a 3.2 Brera will just end up with you paying people like me, twice as much as it would have cost you to have me do the work/maintenance in the first place.

Anyone here disagree? ( Go on, I dares ya!  )

Agreed! Pick a car that's easier to work on. Brera has the potential to be a DIY money pit.
As an example, take the starter motor in my 3.2 159.... the front exhaust manifold needed to come off to access it. Let's just say it wasn't a 1/2 hour job 

On the plus side, the starter was cheap as they use the same unit as a VE Commodore 

[WTBalfabrera]

In that case I'll leave anything Brera to the experts like baz and look at a getting a cheap 156 to learn the in's and out's of maintenance. I figured that with owning an Alfa it would be important to start to develop a good knowledge of mechanics to understand better understand the cars.

[kaleuclint]

To my knowledge we never got the 1750TBi with the Brera here in Oz.

They exist in Melbourne, because I could have bought one.  Highly specced with the five-spoke Giulietta QV wheels and quite exotic in their final form too.

[bazzbazz]

Also there is no such thing as a cheap Alfa.

Sorry, have to disagree there.

I purchased my 2004 156 Selespeed Wagon for $275.00. All I had to do was change one selespeed sensor and apart from normal maintenance and one failed Crank Sensor it hasn't failed me once or cost me anything else. (And I use this as my work vehicle, so it experiences a harder life than most)

I have many, many clients with various Alfas who have had no issues with their cars what so ever other than the normal regular maintenance. And the majority of the rest have come to me to get some problem sorted, and once the issues with the car have been correctly resolved, have gone on to live trouble free Alfa motoring.

Alfa Romeos are no less reliable/expensive than any other brand, you just need someone to maintain it that understands them.

Expensive . . . .speak to any BMW owner about timing chains fitted to the rear of the engine requiring complete engine removal, any Mercedes owner about service costs, or most Japanese owners about CVT transmissions, they'll tell you what expensive is!   

However, back to WTBalfabrera, he wanted to buy a Brera V6 3.2, a car that if has not been maintained properly, or is bought with any issues could be expensive to repair, and definitely a nightmare for a novice who has never owned any Alfa before.
That is the reason I suggested he not go down that road if he is expecting to do the work on the car himself.

[kaleuclint]

...speak to...any Mercedes owner about service costs

No.  Don't!

[bazzbazz]

 

[Darryl]

Also there is no such thing as a cheap Alfa.

Sorry, have to disagree there.

I purchased my 2004 156 Selespeed Wagon for $275.00.

How many alfas have you owned/worked on before this deal ? Its probably not your first .

You listed cars and costs... Here goes with mine...

Cheapest to keep running - Subaru Liberty 3.0

Followed by $1000 Alfetta sedan

followed by a couple of different $2000 75 TSs. Also least depreciation... Even writing one off still got baxck more than it cost...

VH Commodore SS Grp 3 (now if midnight spares hadn't grabbed that it would be most profit - but I digress)...

Nissan Bluebird

Alfa 166

Lots of daylight to the really expensive things below:

Alfa 159

Jaguar XJ40

There are some Alfas I left out - including my first - also first car I bought - which would have been just as expensive to run whatever it was because I was determined to get the best car that just needed a bit of TLC I could find... Yeah - right. If we consider the complete mechanical rebuild over a couple of years, starting from the day I bought it to even get it registered as capex it was then REALLY cheap to maintain (while being thrashed) for another 2... And cars bought specifically to spend $ on playing with them - very hard to figure out what it cost to "run" them.

And re original topic - the 159 Q4 gearbox has been perfect.. Engine replaced, clutch replaced, xfer case and diffs rebuilt, gearbox never touched - don't diss the gearbox... I mean it doesn't have the snappiest shift and ratios are wide and less than regular to suit lazy cruise at speeds way over Australia road legal but other than that... Could do a lot worse.