159 TI too low

[bazzbazz]

Unless the springs or lower mounts have cracked (unlikely), your problem will be the rear shocks need replacing.

Springs do not normally "sag", the only time this happens is if the spring breaks somewhere or develops stress cracking, again unlikely.

[Pseudonym]

159 to springs are known to crack but that's be a drop regardless of laden/unladen.

[bazzbazz]

I'd get the car taken to your local suspension specialist and get them to throw it up on the hoist for an opinion. You can have a cup of coffee while they take the wheels off. HOWEVER, make sure you get shown what they come up with, just in case they are looking for a little extra work. 

[kt159]

It's a pity when these posts get side-tracked from the original issue. Regarding the ride height, I also have a 159TBiTi with 34000k's which I love but it needs more road clearance. I live in country Victoria and need be extra vigalant for uneven bitumen roads because I can srape where the butumen has melted a little in the past and beem deformed into a bit of a lump.
I don't want to go down the path of coilovers either, nor do I want to fit spings from a non-Ti version. I have considered spacers - even 25mm or so would probably do.
Can anyone out there advise a simple, inexpensive solution or are we just resigned to risking damage every time we drive these.

Thanks in advance

[philpot]

Unless the springs or lower mounts have cracked (unlikely), your problem will be the rear shocks need replacing.

Springs do not normally "sag", the only time this happens is if the spring breaks somewhere or develops stress cracking, again unlikely.

Sorry Bazz, have to disagree. With 3 x 33 16V's (yes I know a different model) springs do definitely sag with age/use. As owner of three, Alfa mechanics opinion of same (who I bought number three off) and Tim from Squadra Sportiva owning many. Yes, in this model/case, the front springs do sag and lower. Noticably.

But, and this is a big butt, I'm talking about @ 150 plus K.  Not 34k as kt159 is talking about.

kt159, ( and kaleuclint ?) you can either get new springs made up from the original specs of the springs, which will eventually go the same way at similiar age/use; get replacement OE spec new springs, ditto. Or ... aftermarket firmer replacement versions. Honestly, if you're talking about spacers then the whole strut is being pulled apart anyway so, really , ti springs may be the simplest solution to clearance issues in the medium to long term.

But, if that is against your beliefs, then perhaps Poly spring bushes that are thicker/deeper than std/OE are the way to go ...  I do know that with suds/33's the major poly suspension bush manufacturers do provide this very choice ...  Good Luck !

[V AR 164]

I'm still kinda confused as to how you guys think Ti's are too low.

Here's a pic of my 159 (Right car) with eibach springs on 17's next to a Ti on 19's (Left car).

Mine was considerably lower than the Ti and I never had an issue at all going over speed bumps and dealing with potholes. Even on numerous trips up to Lancefield, Ballarat etc driving on awful backroads with deep potholes and massive rises in the asphalt I never once scraped.

Since fitting 19' Ti wheels it has raised up to standard Ti height and I can fly over speed bumps and such now with no problems at all. I think in the last year I scraped the front once due to a very very tight carpark entrance, even then it was very minor with no visible scratches.

All I'm saying is changing the way you tackle speed bumps and driveways will make you not scrape at all.

Andrew.

[bazzbazz]

Sorry Bazz, have to disagree. With 3 x 33 16V's (yes I know a different model) springs do definitely sag with age/use. As owner of three, Alfa mechanics opinion of same (who I bought number three off) and Tim from Squadra Sportiva owning many. Yes, in this model/case, the front springs do sag and lower. Noticably.

But, and this is a big butt, I'm talking about @ 150 plus K.  Not 34k as kt159 is talking about.

It's NOT the mileage that is the important difference here, but the quality of the steel. The steel that the original 33 springs were made of was utter crap and over time suffered from sever micro fractures.  (I redirect you to post #17) This was not an uncommon occurrence in the 80s & 90s.

Fortunately the springs on the 159 were made THIS century.   

[Pseudonym]

Yeah have heard of that on the 33, that and the shock absorber seized >.<

Eibach 159 springs are rumoured to be a 40mm drop rather than the 30mm of standard Ti (you'd have to ask the AO forums as there's a host of spring threads there) and thinking back to my S13 on HSDs, bodykit and 100mm clearance the 159 is an SUV for ground clearance. True the nose is a bit long and can catch a steep driveway but side by side my 156 JTS Distinctive is lower.

I am running 245/40/19 though so a tiny bit more sidewall than the factory 235s I guess, if you wanted something between Ti and standard 159 springs as Baz said it'd pay to speak to a reputable suspension place as they can ideally hunt down the spring lengths for various brands and look for options. I remember other applications Eibach and Pedders used to offer a few different specs, not too sure on the 159.

[Colin Edwards]

Hi KT159,
Unless you fit camber / caster adjustment bushes to the front end, raising the front ride height will introduce significant positive camber.  Not good for tyre wear or front end grip. 
Might fitting higher profile (45 or 50) tyres be worth considering? 
Maybe the front dampers have lost a bit of bound performance?  This can cause the suspension to compress a tad more in low speed bump.
What pressures are you running?  I usually ran my 159 3.2 Ti Q4 with 42 front 39 rear.  The tyres contribute a lot to the overall suspension system.

[philpot]

It's NOT the mileage that is the important difference here, but the quality of the steel. The steel that the original 33 springs were made of was utter crap and over time suffered from sever micro fractures.  (I redirect you to post #17) This was not an uncommon occurrence in the 80s & 90s.

Fortunately the springs on the 159 were made THIS century.   

Hmmm ...even with modern replacement springs, made out of 'THIS century' steel to original specs ?  ie. diameter; laden height; unladen height, number of coils ? Tim tried that path ... Reportedly they were too high to start with, but then 'sagged' with use; back to square one !

Which leads me to the conclusion it's the design parameters of the 16V's springs are the issue. Not the steel suffering micro-bursts 

Pseudonym, yes, have had that happen with my first one ...  after that, both 16V's on road at the moment have Koni Sport Yellow inserts. And H&R replacement spring sets !

Oh, kt159, getting back on task       IMHO All of Colin's points are on the mark ( and bazzbazzs' #17 too ! ) Re. your stated issue and criteria. Especially the compression/rebound performance of the dampers. Front and rear !

[kaleuclint]

I guess it's hard to define "too low" but I can assure you Andrew that in suburban Melbourne it's very easy to scrape the Ti with stock suspension on undulations in the tarmac, raised gatic doors (finally fixed in New Street Brighton), speed humps and particularly on driveway crossovers.  There is a considerable overhang at the front of course.  Just means driving with a bit of care, also necessitated by 19" wheels.  BTW, the setting for your photo seems familiar -- OTS Point Cook??

My problem is at the rear anyway.  Ride height unladen is fine except for an occasional sound that tells me something is knocking or rubbing on something else.  I'll get Tru Track to cast a professional eye over the issue and I'll report back.

[philpot]

Just for reference. Makes interesting reading.

https://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-159-brera-andamp-946-spider/597769-springs-on-a-159-ti.html

https://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-159-brera-andamp-946-spider/1157410-advice-on-fitting-new-springs-to-159-a.html

https://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-159-brera-andamp-946-spider/994137-broken-ti-springs.html

https://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-159-brera-andamp-946-spider/957818-159-2-4-ti-rear-springs-replacement.html

https://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-159-brera-andamp-946-spider/638081-159ti-springs.html

https://www.google.com/search?sa=X&q=Alfa+romeo+159+sagging+springs+site:www.alfaowner.com&tbm=isch&source=univ&ved=2ahUKEwjF8urZ2eHjAhUC63MBHfa1BDwQsAR6BAgJEAE&biw=1526&bih=706

[bazzbazz]

Broken springs are different issue with different causes. I personally have never come across a broken spring on a 939 series car here in Australia, nor do I know of anyone who has. (maybe I live a sheltered life, I'm sure someone will pipe up with an experience, please do if you have)

Also just a general point for everyone, always remember one thing to take into account when using information from the Alfaowner UK site - Salted Roads !

Take a look at photos of the underside and suspension of UK Alfas, they are all rust ridden, cracking, crumbling & disintegrating disasters. We are so lucky to live here.

But you are quite correct, does make for very interesting and informative reading, as with all your posts.

[bazzbazz]

Resurrecting this thread as I may have a suspension issue.  With two people in the back the wheel arch gaps have closed right up.  Do I need stiffer springs??  Any experiences / suggestions??

Something that should have been said at the beginning, your car is designed to take 4 adults with no issues, so no, having 2 people in the back should not cause issues with ride height or bottoming out.

When I first got my 156 Wagon it had the same issue, two people in the back had the tyres scraping the wheel wells every time I went over a bump or round a corner. A new set of shocks and the problem was solved.

[Pseudonym]

Take a look at photos of the underside and suspension of UK Alfas, they are all rust ridden, cracking, crumbling & disintegrating disasters. We are so lucky to live here.

Ssshhh. He's lying everyone, it's horrible here don't come, stay in Diesel Island - there's rust everywhere, heaps of tax, nobody forms an orderly line... The sports balls are all elongated....