dead alternator brushes; alternative brushes (147 TS Magneti Marelli alternator)

[johnl]

Bluetooth OBD2 to your phone... all the stats you desire

Umm, I still live in the 20th century, and still have a 'dumb' phone, one day I'll be forced to catch up...

Anyway, went for a long drive this evening with several engine stops and starts. No problems at all, and my headlights seem brighter...

Worst part of the trip was passing all the kart trailers leaving the local track. It was a State Titles meeting there today, and I just can't race, no time, few dollars...

Regards,
John.

[Citroënbender]

It's a shame the label apparently fell off your original unit. I've been trawling UK Fleabay but can't come to a consistent determination of the OE part number physically applied to the unit (not necesscelery as assigned in ePer).

I intent to - if possible - positively identify the item in this way and order a full new rev/brushholder from WoodAuto, likely about $95 the part plus $30 freight. Would any of the remaining 147 2.0 pilots be interested in piggybacking onto my purchase (no profit applied)?

[johnl]

CB,
I didn't say the sticker had been lost. I mentioned that there was one with various numbers printed on it, but didn't give the numbers (sticker is on the main body of the alternator). After cleaning the dirt, the totality of what can be read is as follows;

DENSO
Made in Italy
63321836
A115IM
C132 24703/2
46782219
14V (or it could be 14U, but 'V' makes more sense...)
90 A
And a barcode

I can't read the numbers on the other alternator (the one now in the car), but since they both seem identical I assume the numbers are the same.

Hope that helps. It's still strange that there are various components of the alternator clearly marked 'Magneti Marelli'.

Anyway, you don't want to try adapting other carbon brushes as I have done? It's worked well and cost me only $15.00. This was really the point of this topic, a heads up to the possibility of an alternative solution if the correct brushes / brush holder thingy were not easily or quickly (or cheaply) sourceable.

If you recall I used Bosch GB610 brushes. Adapting them was relatively quick and easy, you just need a sheet of relatively fine grit emery paper to sand them down to the required width / thickness, a soldering iron, and the ability to do simple electrical soldering (which I'm confident you would have).

Regards,
John.

[johnl]

You could try this, it's what I did when I last had the plenum out it only adds a couple of minutes to the job
If you loosen the bolts for the plenum brace at the block this will allow movement at the T section that will allow you to position and replace the bolts easily at the T, then tighten all of them up.

Thanks Sportiva,
Yes, I did that. It introduced yet another problem.

The heads on those two bolts are very shallow and don't protrude very far into the socket head or ring of the spanner. If (as is common) the socket or ring does not have the ridges of the hex points extending all the way to the very end of the socket / ring bore (there is usually a chamfer here at the mouth of the tool), then the shallow bolt hex and recessed socket / ring hex ridges don't mesh very securely, and the spanner ring or socket head easily comes off the head of the bolt. This happens just when you begin trying to exert force to tighten the bolt. Keeping in mind that we are trying to tighten these bolts when it is impossible to see what is happening, very dificult to get the tool onto the bolt head in the first place, and then very difficult to apply force to the tool, it is quite frustrating (especially when holding the tool with hands lubricated with dirt, oil, sweat, blood...).

To alleviate this I ground the ends of the ring spanners and sockets that I was using until the hex ridges extended to the very end of the tools, which helped but the problem still existed. If I was doing this over again I'd replace those two bolts for ones with deeper head hexes.

Regards,
John.

[johnl]

Have to say, I have never encountered such badly designed bolts on any other car, even my Alfetta sedan I once owned (in the late Pre-Cambrian...). Not even the FIAT 124 Sports engine that I had in my Old Nota clubman car had bolt heads like that...

Regards,
John.

[bazzbazz]

As I mention before, the brace is there to support the lower part of the Plenum, without it it has a tendency to separate at the seam, as it is made of two halves. The two upper bolts only support the upper half, so there is a reason for that pain in the arse lower support. And yes, I have personally come across plenums separating/cracking.

As for fitting the bolts, I just do it from underneath with very long extensions, just needs a steady hand.

[Domenic]

It's a shame the label apparently fell off your original unit. I've been trawling UK Fleabay but can't come to a consistent determination of the OE part number physically applied to the unit (not necesscelery as assigned in ePer).

I intent to - if possible - positively identify the item in this way and order a full new rev/brushholder from WoodAuto, likely about $95 the part plus $30 freight. Would any of the remaining 147 2.0 pilots be interested in piggybacking onto my purchase (no profit applied)?

Why don't you try some local club sponsors, as they may have the Marelli and Bosch Alternator regulators in stock...............

[bazzbazz]

I reckon Italian Automotive Spares might have them in stock. 

(What? Not subtle enough?) 

(Sorry, the vino made me do it) 

[johnl]

As I mention before, the brace is there to support the lower part of the Plenum, without it it has a tendency to separate at the seam, as it is made of two halves. The two upper bolts only support the upper half, so there is a reason for that pain in the arse lower support. And yes, I have personally come across plenums separating/cracking.

Bazz,
I'm willing to accept that not connecting the brace will at least increase the chances of the plenum cracking or some way coming apart, and that it could happen (despite appearing unlikely). I was tempted not to, but as I said wasn't confident that it might not cause a plenum issue, so I did connect it...

I noticed the plenum seam, and the multitude of little springy clips that appear to hold the two halves together. I suspect that if one were actually wanting to separate them, that it would be next to impossible...

As for fitting the bolts, I just do it from underneath with very long extensions, just needs a steady hand.

Well, my trolley jack wasn't cooperating, and while it would have been possible to use a scissor jack to get the height needed it is a PITA so I perservered from above. Good news for today is that the jack is back online...

Regards,
John.

[bazzbazz]

I noticed the plenum seam, and the multitude of little springy clips that appear to hold the two halves together. I suspect that if one were actually wanting to separate them, that it would be next to impossible...

Never said the clips let go, because that not what happens. What happens is it CRACKS along the seam area from vibration and not being supported. There IS a reason why the support is there.

It's not that it will definitely happen, but it can happen.

[johnl]

Never said the clips let go, because that not what happens. What happens is it CRACKS along the seam area from vibration and not being supported. There IS a reason why the support is there.

Ah, then you meant that it can separate adjacent to the seam...

It's not that it will definitely happen, but it can happen.

I believe you, since you've seen it. Still surprises me though.

Battery continues to remain charged, and the engine feels to have a tad more power (but high possibility of placebo effect...).

Regards,
John.

[Citroënbender]

Why don't you try some local club sponsors, as they may have the Marelli and Bosch Alternator regulators in stock...............

In these situations, I invite contact from local sources who can supply OE items ex stock at a comparable price.

[Craig_m67]

You invite contact?

[Citroënbender]

Yes, Mick A had no trouble messaging when he knew I was looking for something he had on the shelf. Price was fine, I paid, he posted that day.

[MD]

Read through this thread but possibly missed it and so with some poetic license, here's a hot tip for knuckle savers.
BEFORE you reinstall your rebuilt alternator in the belief that surely it will now work given all the love and bleeding knuckles bestowed upon it, dig into the cookie jar and make a contribution to your local auto elec shop beer fund. While you are there, ask them to run up the unit and test it for charge UNDER LOAD. This will show up any problems that can relate to diodes, regulators, brushes and any intermittencies in the windings.
If you fail to do this, you just may have to repeat the joyful exercise a few times until you get it percolating. Your call.