1982 GTV renovation

[festy]

The original EPROM used in the ML4.1 was an Intel B57604, which is a Bosch custom part number for an Intel D27256-200. Almost all the ICs in the ML4.1 have custom Bosch part numbers, which makes reverse engineering a whole lot of fun
By the time the 3.0 164 was released they might have switched to using 27C256 though.
The replacement is an SST 27SF512.

[Anth73]

Sorry it's been a while between updates. You know the drill...work commitments, lack of time, etc. But I've also reached the point of not being able to do much more myself and waiting patiently for COVID restrictions to lift. Also, there's been another GTV6 engine conversion being done by Monza Motors to complete ahead of mine. I won't be a spoiler other than to say it's a rip snorter and well worth the time and expense. Just click on over to gtvsix86's thread for all the info.

The delay on my project has been fruitful. Scanning eBay and Gumtree every day finally yielded the equivalent of the holy grail in the form of a fully intact and functioning passenger side mirror.

With said mirror now secured I set about fixing up the wiring and installing the electric mirror switch I bought from fellow forum member GTVeloce. Being an '82 model the car was not wired from the factory for a passenger side mirror. However, somebody had previously tried to wire it in and made a bit of a mess of it with wires pulled from the back of the existing 6-pin plug below the centre console and a dodgy attempt to connect the ground wire for the mirror into an existing ground.

Thankfully there's quite a few articles online on the topic of wiring in a second mirror, so that was a pretty easy fix. I also decided to provide the ground via the existing bolt that secures the dash to the firewall, same as for the drivers side. Unfortunately the passenger mirror didn't come with the factory plugs, a couple of 2-pin plugs from Supercheap were an easy replacement.

With both mirrors temporarily connected I confirmed they were both working, however strangely rotating the mirror switch selector to the left actually results in the driver side mirror being adjusted and vice versa. I confirmed the mirror switch and plug wiring is correct against multiple images online. It's an easy fix to swap over the left and right control wires next time I'm playing with the wiring.

GTVeloce had also given me the black plastic conduits for the door jambs, I only need to procure the rubber seal where it clips into the door jamb to provide a watertight seal.

Next instalment should be once the car is finally at the Monza Motors workshop, which should be next week. Meanwhile here's a few pics of the wiring mess I started with, the corrected wiring in the 6-pin plug, the ground point under the dash and the mirror side wiring just prior to installing the two 2-pin plugs.

[GTVeloce]

I might have a couple of the two pin plugs spare. I'll have a look. These are the ones that 'socket' into the door metal, yes?

Otherwise, great work as always! Bring on the V6!

[Anth73]

I might have a couple of the two pin plugs spare. I'll have a look. These are the ones that 'socket' into the door metal, yes?

Otherwise, great work as always! Bring on the V6!

Thanks Julian. Yes they are the plugs that socket into the door. The mirror I bought didn't have them and neither does the wiring loom.

[Anth73]

A couple of smaller odd jobs I finally managed to get to was replacing both door seals and refitting the centre console with the mirror switch and a new gear lever boot.

The 80's plastic of the centre console took some fiddling to line up correctly and accommodate the wiring for the electric mirror switch and cigarette lighter. I actually would like to replace the cigarette lighter with a dual USB socket but could not work out how to disassemble and remove the cigarette lighter. Anyone have any tips?

The new door seals with the velour backing went on easy enough, though I suggest using a rubber mallet instead of your hand to get it properly seated to save some pain. The doors are harder to close and the panel gaps are a little wider with the new seals. Hopefully they settle down with time.

I dropped off the last of my parts to Monza Motors and confirmed the GTV will be going into the workshop once opened in the first week of January.

I also popped into Rankins Panels and had a really nice chat with Paul Rankin about my GTV. He confirmed it was Damian Black's GTV and they treated it to a bare metal restoration about 15 years ago. Looking forward to getting on with the next phase of work in January!

[GTVeloce]

To get the cigarette lighter you usually have to remove the light first. Squeeze the metal surrounding the light and the tabs can then pop out of the main housing. Then, unscrew the metal sheath. This will allow the unit to withdraw upwards and out (provided you have disconnected the wires of course!)

[Anth73]

Well after many false dawns finally(!) the road to 3L GTV6 ecstasy starts this week with the removal of the existing twin spark motor. I've asked the team at Monza Motors to document the transplant with photos along the way. Not sure on timing to complete the work as it will also involve a tidy up of some body bits and pieces by Paul Rankin, who did the original bare metal restoration in the mid 2000's.

The full list of work being done is:
- 3L from an Alfa 75 with 10:1 pistons, C&B road max cams, new seals and water pump
- Bosch Motronic 4.1 ECU with 164Q map
- Ported and polished heads
- Polished intake runners
- EB Spares stainless steel exhaust with ceramic coated headers
- 164Q engine loom
- 164Q air flow meter
- 75 Potenziata spec Bosch injectors
- GTA 305mm twin piston front brakes
- New clutch
- Alfa 75 A/C with new parallel flow condenser
- EB Spares aluminium radiator
- Twin cooling fans from a 916 3L GTV V6
- Cleaned and POR-15 coated GTV6 fuel tank (doing this was better strength building than multiple gym sessions!)
- 120A Bosch alternator
- Car Builders firewall insulation
- New fibreglass bonnet
- Refreshed front and rear vents
- Passenger side door mirror

Look out for photo updates as we go!

[gtvsix86]

Looking forward to it, it will be awesome.... I hope you don't hit any snags along the way like I have 

[Anth73]

A milestone achieved today with the twin spark that has lived under my GTV's bonnet since 2005 removed and the engine mounts cut out ready for the 3L V6 mounts to go in their place. Next step is getting the car down to Rankins for engine bay paint.

[GTVeloce]

Exciting news! I was just looking at my V6 today thinking I really need to get cracking on it soon and then this inspiration has come.

[Anth73]

A setback today with the news that the V6 engine mounts that Monza Motors had planned to use were unfortunately buggered. They're trying to track down another donor car but they're pretty scarce. PM me if you know of a donor car.

In other news I confirmed Hugh has a 164 engine loom put aside for me, might even be off a Q car. So in that case it makes sense to use the 164Q EEPROM that Festy provided in place of the 75/SZ dual personality chip I had fitted to the 164 ECU....that would've been damn interesting to try out!

On the plus side I can use the 164 idle air control instead of the troublesome auxiliary air valve. I also scored a 164QV air flow meter from the US. This is the largest air flow meter Alfa fitted to the 12V V6, identical to the air flow meter on our 164Q Aussie spec cars and identified by part 0280203035.

Another puzzle I'm trying to sort out is if the CSC headers I bought from EB Spares fit with the standard starter motor. There are some threads on Alfabb that suggest a later smaller starter motor is required. Photos attached below, thoughts anyone?

[Anth73]

With COVID travel restrictions eased last Friday I made the trek down to Monza Motors to deliver my POR-15 treated GTV6 fuel tank. It was great to see my GTV again after so long, this time with an empty engine bay finally! Hugh was still waiting on a GTV6 front end to arrive so they can scavenge the engine mounts off it for my car. I also was finally introduced to AR06124*001291, the 3.0 V6 from an Alfa 75 that's going into my GTV... provided we can work through the challenge of sourcing apporpriate high impedance injectors required by the Motronic ECU.

Given only a handful of Motronic spec RWD V6's were produced, designated by engine codes AR61501 (SZ/RZ) and AR61503 (75 Potenziata), the Bosch 0280150257 high impedance injectors fitted were discontinued in 2007 and very challenging to find either new old stock, used or refurbished. Using the low impedance injectors fitted to L-Jetronic GTV6s and 75s will eventually burn out the injector driver in your ECU. The Alfa 164 bosch injectors are not compatible as they are the modern o-ring type and won't fit the fuel rail nor inlet manifold on my 75 motor.

Scouring as many injector websites and spares places in Oz, USA and Europe has only turned up four of the Bosch inectors at around $300 - $500 a pop...ouch! So I have a dilemma, namely:

1. Go with a slightly higher flowing Bosch injector claimed to be compatible at around $800. It may require a tweak to fuel pressure to tame my air/fuel ratios (along with an adjustable fuel pressure regulator), or needing to go to a programmable ECU instead of the 164Q Motronic setup I had planned to use.

2. Try my luck on some DEFUS branded compatible injectors on Aliexpress with a 12 month warranty for around $200. Tempting but lots of bad news stories online about cheap chinese injectors.

3. Try my luck on a high impendance injector that can be made as a special order by fiveomotorsport in the US with a 3-year warranty for about $1,000. Would be best to grab a spare or two just in case a warranty return is needed.

4. Use some convertible clips to allow any o-ring style injector to mate with the barb style fuel rail but finding just the right height and flow rate injector will be a process and may still require a programmable ECU depending on flow rates. Seems like 200cc/min injectors are passe these days.

5. Ditch the Motronic altogether and go with a programmable ECU plus connectors, loom etc that can run locally sourced compatible low impedance injectors...like the standard Bosch versions on the Jetronic cars that are supposed to be good for up to 230hp.  I estimate this would be at least a $3K investment plus dyno time.

I need to think this over given I will be committing around $800 for the Bosch Motronic components and should also gather a spare ECU and AFM for some future proofing!

[festy]

I went through similar hassles trying to find suitable high impedance hose barb injectors back when I was converting my nord to EFI using an L-Jet Spider manifold, and ended up just ditching the Spider fuel rail and making a new o-ring style rail. If the hose tail adapters had been an option at the time, I probably would have gone with them to save the hassle though.

The injector height shouldn't be too critical with those adapters because you can adjust the hose length to suit.
I think a good injector candidate might be the Bosch 0280150766 - 200cc/min @3 bar, cheap and common as they were used on the early 90s Ford/Mazda 4L v6.

I'd recommend not using low impedance injectors, there's a good reason they were abandoned in favour of high impedance injectors 35 years ago.

What would it take to adapt a 164 fuel rail to fit?

[Anth73]

What would it take to adapt a 164 fuel rail to fit?

The fuel rail on the 75 V6 does a zig zag around the intake runners on both sides whereas the 164 fuel rail is straight. Hence adapting it will not be easy.

I did read on the forum of another person who tried the o-ring adaptors but even with the fuel rail barb hard up against the injector barb, the fuel rail still sat too high for the plenum to mount properly. Seems like they used injectors that were too tall. I did speak with EFI Hardware and they believed they would have a suitable o-ring injector height, but they only go down to 260cc/min which would require an adjustable fuel pressure regulator or a programmable ECU to work properly.

[Anth73]

Whilst the injector troubles remain some good news, my motor has been stripped down and is off to the engine shop today for a thorough check and a little port and polish job. By the look of it my valves have not suffered a broken timing belt.