156 SMOKE!

[Beatle]

How embarrassment....
Was on the way to give blood yesterday and heard a strange bearing noise from under the bonnet (V6 auto). 
Two sets of lights to get through (both went red..) and had smoke emanating from the engine bay
Managed to pull into the carpark and get the bonnet open then carefully watched for the next ten minutes waiting for things to cool down and eyeing off the extinguisher in the foyer of the blood bank.

So, I suspect I have a seized ancillary bearing, either a tensioner, follower, or one of the components (PS pump, alternator etc).

The car was still running OK, and not getting hot, so I don't think its the T-belt or waterpump.  Levering the cover back slightly the T-belt looks intact.

I left the car overnight and when I attempted to start it today it would only turn very slowly and almost instantly produced more smoke, so I'd say something is now fully seized.

The smoke has a rubbery smell.  Not oily or transmissiony.

Smoke seems to be coming from down low on the right (front) of the engine, closest to the firewall.   PS pump?  Alternator?

What are the common fail items on the 2.5V6?

Oh, I was on time for the blood donation 

[bazzbazz]

You won't be able to tell anything till you jack the car up and take off the wheel well cover to inspect the accessory belt.

If there is nothing bloody obvious just take the belt off and start spinning pulleys to see what's not behaving itself.

Alternator is near the firewall, P/Steering pump is next to the radiator.

I do know of Alternators that have thrown windings and locked solid or swallowed something with same results.

[Beatle]

Thanks Barry,

I don't recall getting a dash full of warning lights, but I do think it'll be the alternator.

Might be the result of my washing the engine a few months back.......

[Beatle]

Alternator is seized solid......

[bazzbazz]

Well, I'd say your a pro at getting the subframe off by now so you'll have no problems. 

[Beatle]

I've read through a few different DIY guides and think I can get the Alt out without dropping the subframe.  One even says you can get the Alt out through the top without pulling the driveshaft but I'll probably bring it out through the wheel arch.

[bazzbazz]

When there are just one pair of hands dropping the subframe is easier.

To be honest, there is just as much work doing it through the arch, and its bloody awkward.

No matter which way, its a prick of a job.

[Beatle]

Yes, it's such a prick of a job I almost pushed the car around the back of the shed and took the plates off...  But, I've committed to the task so may as well finish it.

Most of the DIY guides say to pull the cooling fans out to allow sufficient room to roll the engine forward.  I removed the 4 small screws from the fan surround but cant for the life of me see how the assembly will come out.  It won't drop down as there are tubes and hoses in the way.   It won't come up because there simply isn't enough space between the cam cover and the slam panel.  I even removed the dipstick assembly.

The only possibility would be when I support the engine and remove the engine mounts I might be able to roll it enough (rearwards/down) to get the fans out, then roll it forward to get at the alternator.

Exhaust intermediate pipes are out, RH drive shaft is out.  I still don't see how that big fat alternator is coming out that hole though...... 

[bonno]

Hi Beatle
Find attached link to ALFAowner on  "How to replace Alternator on a Alfa 156 2.5L". I would not be washing the engine in the future, without protecting/shielding the electricals, specifically the Alternator (more than likely contributed to the siezure)
https://www.alfaowner.com/threads/how-to-remove-the-alternator-from-the-top-on-a-156-v6-cf2.1001961/

[bazzbazz]

Exhaust intermediate pipes are out, RH drive shaft is out.  I still don't see how that big fat alternator is coming out that hole though......

Yup, you have to do what you have done so far, as well as remove the lower engine mount (so you can get to and disconnect wires and move engine forward), remove the fans, undo the divers side engine mount, jack engine forward, and try not to push it into the radiator, then undo alternator bolts, manhandle it out, then reverse.

Beginning to understand now why I say just drop the subframe? 

It's one of those 6 to one, 1/2 dozen to other scenarios.

[Beatle]

Hi Beatle
Find attached link to ALFAowner on  "How to replace Alternator on a Alfa 156 2.5L". I would not be washing the engine in the future, without protecting/shielding the electricals, specifically the Alternator (more than likely contributed to the siezure)
https://www.alfaowner.com/threads/how-to-remove-the-alternator-from-the-top-on-a-156-v6-cf2.1001961/

Thanks Bonno, that's where I got the direction on removing the fans, but I can't get mine out and another poster posed the same question under that thread but never got an answer.
That guy also indicated he pulled the alternator out through the top but I reckon the brake master cyl would prevent it.

[Beatle]

To close this out:

1.  The best way to extract the alternator is definitely as Baz recommended.  i.e. Dropping the subframe and pulling the RH axle.  I tried rolling the engine forward but couldn't get the fan assy out of the way, and was still a few inches off getting the alternator clear.  Luckily I had only recently dropped the subframe for suspension work so all the bolts came out easily (copper grease). 

2. The replacement alternator was a refurbished 120amp model out of a 166 ($289 ebay).  It had a slightly smaller pulley so I was worried about the belt length.  The 'standard' belt seems to be a 6PK1995 (1995mm long).  The belt I removed was a 1980mm.  But a few checks with the 1995 fitted showed there is still plenty of stroke left on the tensioner so it should all be OK.

3. This is probably the worst job I've ever had to do on a car (and I once owned a Triumph....).  I'd rather peel my skin off with a potato peeler and roll around in rock salt than attempt it again.....

[bazzbazz]

I do believe this is where someone says "I told you so"! 


Makes doing a V6 belt change seem like a walk in the park. (Social distancing included)