Alfa 156 selespeed delayed shift

[Dr_Doom]

Hi,
Recently my transmission started playing up. It started with the shift from 4th to 5th being a bit delayed, sometimes requiring me to back off the accelerator. Then reverse wouldn't kick in or kick in delayed. Then it would grind into reverse like the clutch wasn't engaging. I adjusted the clutch position rod as it was off by a millimetre and a bit, and it's a bit worse. Now sometimes it shifts into gears smoothly, and sometimes I need to back off the accelerator. Also reverse is hit and miss, sometimes it goes in fine, sometimes it's delayed, and sometimes it doesn't go it, but it doesn't grind. Anyone know what my issue might be, I feel like a new clutch is needed but don't know if something else is at play. 

[bazzbazz]

What is the mileage of the car?

[Dr_Doom]

Around 160k

[bazzbazz]

Well you are in the zone for when Selespeed clutches do start to fail and the symptoms that you describe are indicative of such.

If the mileage was much lower there are many other things I would suggest first, but at this point I think your self assessment may be spot on.

There is one sure way to tell, using diagnostics set the clutch rod to 28mm, then take the car for a drive. If after the drive you find the clutch rod is shorter again and below 28mm by a few mm, and if you keep repeating the process it keeps getting shorter, then this indicates that the clutch pressure plate spring fingers are failing, or more likely, the thrust bearing is wearing its way through them.

[Dr_Doom]

I did a bit of investigating and found a few things.
When I start the car, I can put it into reverse easily (don't know if I was just lucky all the time though) but when I drive around a bit then put in reverse it sometimes engages slowly or doesn't engage the first time, turning the car off and on helped. Also when I start the car in neutral there is a bit of noise like something is rubbing, as soon as I select a gear it goes away, even when I put it back into neutral. I did notice that when I adjusted the clutch and calibrated it, the position did change. I had to overcompensate the adjustment in order for it to be at correct position after calibration. I haven't noticed a significant change after though.
Also no error messages pop up on Multiecuscan

[bazzbazz]

Also when I start the car in neutral there is a bit of noise like something is rubbing, as soon as I select a gear it goes away, even when I put it back into neutral.

Sounds like the Clutch Thrust Bearing is on it's way out, again, symptoms of a dying clutch. As I'm not there and can't give any further advice from this distance (My Psionic abilities have a limited range) I'd take it to someone in Melbourne who specialises in Selespeeds to confirm whether it is the clutch or not.

Can anyone recommend someone in Melbourne who knows what they are doing with Selespeeds?

[Dr_Doom]

Hi,
As I was driving yesterday I was stationary in first gear then the car just stalls, I turn the car back on and I heard a bit clanking like something was broken for 2 seconds and it goes away, cannot change gears stuck in neutral. After getting it towed I put the scanner in and it says that the clutch is at 10mm, however the actuator arm is at normal place. I try to adjust it but at 20mm the arm is adjusted to maximum. I think something broke within the clutch and I need a new clutch kit. But is it normal for the actuator arm to not move after this? I would have thought that it would move but no gears get selected. Right now it doesn't move at all, but I can still hear the pump working.

[bazzbazz]

Most likely, as I previously suggested, the thrust bearing has worn its way through the pressure plate spring fingers. I did warn you.

[Dr_Doom]

Does anyone know if changing the clutch on selespeed is any different to a standard manual, or is there some extra steps. Can I remove the gearbox while keeping the robot on or does it have to be removed. Also should the clutch arm move without a clutch (or broken clutch)? Currently it doesn't move but theoretically I think it should move just no gears can be selected, or is there some feature that prevents that.

[bazzbazz]

Can I remove the gearbox while keeping the robot on or does it have to be removed.

No, Selespeed Actuator has to be removed

Also should the clutch arm move without a clutch (or broken clutch)? Currently it doesn't move but theoretically I think it should move just no gears can be selected, or is there some feature that prevents that.

The most likely reason it can't move is because the thrust bearing that is attached to the clutch arm inside the gearbox is ploughed
through the Pressure Plate Clutch Fingers and is jammed.

[Colin Edwards]

Alfa Donnini Repairs in Malvern East, Beninca Motors in Surrey Hills, Mauceri Motors in Clayton, Maranello Pursang in Brunswick.

[Dr_Doom]

I just got the clutch replaced and it shift perfectly, except from 2nd to 3rd. Shifting up form 2nd to 3rd has a pause until it goes in, even if I release the accelerator, shifting down is ok though. The throw out bearing was completely broken, the housing shattered into bits.
Thanks for your help, I just need any ideas on why 2nd to 3rd isn't perfect.

[bazzbazz]

Check in the following order -

1/ Was End Of Line calibration carried out?

2/ Was Clutch calibration carried out?

3/ Clutch rod not at correct length

4/ Pinch Bolt not tightened to correct torque

5/ Selection Sensor needs replacing

6/ Engagement Sensor needs replacing

[Dr_Doom]

Hi, I did the calibration and clutch rod adjustments before driving off. I managed to remove the gearbox without removing the actuator so the pinch bolt should be fine. If the sensors are going there should be a fault code stored but there isn't. I drove it for a bit and it has gotten a lot better since, I asked a Alfa specialist about this problem and he said that the computer had to relearn some of the changes and apply them. It works fine now (maybe not as good as other gear changes but very small difference) so I guess it's ok. Thanks for all your help with this.

[bazzbazz]

Hi, I did the calibration and clutch rod adjustments before driving off. I managed to remove the gearbox without removing the actuator so the pinch bolt should be fine.

Really? So what you're saying is that during the whole time the clutch was playing up previous to failing the pinch bolt couldn't have loosened slightly? As you say, it might be perfectly fine, but until you re-torque the bolt you'll never know. The symptoms you are describing are usually caused by either a loose pinch bolt or a worn engagement/selection sensor.
But kudos to you for getting it off without removing it, I just find it much quicker overall and less hassle by removing it.

If the sensors are going there should be a fault code stored but there isn't.

That's not correct, the sensors will only show a fault if they have failed, lost connection or the connection/wiring to them have failed.
Worn sensors will not normally show a fault.

I asked a Alfa specialist about this problem and he said that the computer had to relearn some of the changes and apply them.
It works fine now (maybe not as good as other gear changes but very small difference) so I guess it's ok.

So, you asked an Alfa Specialist? (What do you think I am, a hot cross bun?)   


That's NOT how the Selespeed system works. It does have adaptive learning, but after a clutch change and full calibration, and if everything is in working order, it should operate flawlessly. The fact it has gotten better is the adaptive nature of the system trying to compensate for the issues you are having.

Thanks for all your help with this.

One is glad to be of service. Hope you have many more wonderful miles in your Alfa.