BHP and the Selespeed

[SeleMatt]

Greetings all,

I am wondering how resilient the 5 speed selespeed is to BHP. Would it be able to handle 240BHP of NA ponies for instance?

Cheers

[bazzbazz]

Well it's the exact same gearbox as in the manual (Slight difference in some of the ratios ratios) if that helps.

And just where are you getting this 240hp from? 

[poohbah]

Alfa fitted selespeed transmissions to some 156 GTA sedans (not sold in Oz) and some 147 GTAs, so they could obviously handle 250bhp. Though I understand they were a slightly different uprated version of the normal selespeed box.

[bazzbazz]

The gearboxes on 3.2 V6 engine Selespeed cars were a completely different gearbox to what was fitted to the 4 cylinder Selespeed cars.

The Selespeed system on these cars was also a very different unit as well.

I'm still interested to find out where he's getting the 240 HP from. 

[SeleMatt]

That's good news guys.

I'm assuming that if Alfaholics can produce an old school 2.0 4 banger that can put out those sort of ponies that you could do it with a multi valve modern version?

I remember Bazz telling me that there was light years between the 5 speed and 6 speed sele's in the 932 series and further light years between the 6 speed 932 sele and the 939 series 6 speed sele.

Bazz; A 240 NA bhp JTS. Big ends that don't throw themselves at the road. Pistons and rings engineered by an adult. Cams that aren't made of brie.

Or would it be more practical to use a TS engine for such an exercise?

[SeleMatt]

Apologies.

225hp.

[Alfatango]

Just buy a 156 shell and buy a 3.2 engine and manual transmission and put that in. It will probably be cheaper and last longer.

The twin spark is a lot tougher motor than the jts 4 cylinder if you do have to go down that road imo.

My opinion is that the selespeed is pretty pointless technology so I would stick to a manual gearbox.

[Craig_m67]

Just buy a GQV and be done with it (ie., save the money and time - Alfa did it fit you already)

[SeleMatt]

Thanks guys. I accept all those practical arguments but I really, really love my Ti facelift. These things are highly subjective, but I reckon the facelift 156 is one of the sexiest cars they've ever produced.
Craig - The Guilietta QV is a styling hat full to me though it's a super fun car to drive. I'm not really a hatch guy with the exception of the Brera.

This isn't about the money but what is achievable. I'm wanting to keep it as a 156 Ti selespeed. As per my original post, I mentioned most of the weaknesses in the JTS and they are all surmountable imho.

Are there any other known weakness's like oil delivery etc?

The JTS motor in the car at the present is as good as they get in standard form with only around 35000k's on it (the engine was rebuilt with the 'upgraded' rings by the previous owner). It's light throttle response is excellent and I love how it spins up and sounds. I've put poly bushing's through the rear and fitted Bilstein B6's and Eibach springs, GT horseshoe wheels to it.
It's a fun car.
I just want an engine that you can fully sink the slipper into, is bullet proof and uses engine oil that doesn't disappear.
Time isn't an issue.
I have access to a JTS long motor with a busted timing belt and so I'm considering rebuilding this motor with the aforementioned weaknesses addressed etc.

There's no hurry.

Alfatango - It's fair enough you think the selespeed is pointless but I've had it for 4 years and maintained it as per Bazz's maintenance schedule; it's been faultless. It's an interesting piece of automotive history and I enjoy it's click-clacking and languid shifting compared to the modern twin clutch jobs. Changing it out to a traditional manual doesn't interest me for this car. I've other manuals.

Anyone else have an opinion on the JTS vs TS ignoring the cost but focusing on the outcome; which is essentially direct injection vs traditional induction?

Cheers.

[Alfatango]

Sounds like it will be an interesting project. I am a fan of the face lift 156 as well. I just wish they kept the twin spark motor.

[Craig_m67]

I don't think Alfaholics does anything for the TS or JTS engine(s) that you have?

AHM Motorsport do.

[SeleMatt]

Quite right Craig.

I was just pointing out what's been achieved with the old banger 4 pots.

AHM have certainly got some gear for the TS.

[poohbah]

Alfa got over 300bhp out of a 2L for its WTCC-winning Super 2000 touring car, but that was a Twin Spark specifically modded for racing so probably totally unusable in a road car, and a very expensive  road to go down. Doubt it has much left in common with a stock motor.

But if you dig out the specs you might be able to adapt some of the changes to yours.

And check out the various European 156 owners forums - big tuning community over there so I'd be surprised if there aren't how-to threads somewhere.

Or you could just go and buy this ....

https://www.portellofactory.com/en/cars/alfa-romeo-156-super-produzione-2/

[psproule]

Not really an answer SeleMatt but some random comments... We have / had three Twin Sparks and a couple of JTS's. All 147's and 156's. I have to agree with you that the facelift 156 is a stunning piece of design, inside and out. And a healthy JTS with a properly set up Selespeed running the latter software is actually a really nice combo to drive. Not fast, but fun! The JTS also just has the legs on a TS and seems to love life at the redline a bit more. I sold ours after it broke my heart a second time spitting a rod bearing. And we took all the usual precautions.... Our TS's on the other hand seem near indestructible so long as you do the timing belts. As to the 5 speed transmission; Driving along one day in the JTS I heard a metallic noise of metal dropping on the road. Car still drove fine but then I noticed the trail of oil behind. Long story short about a 50 cent piece size of the transmission case simply fell out the side of the box! Took a day to swap another one in that I had laying around. Otherwise we haven't had a fault with any of the transmissions, and the sele actuators & pumps have actually been quite reliable too.

While I would love to do what Baz suggests and build a unicorn facelift 156 with a 3.2, I reckon a JTS or TS with turbo would be a fairly epic combo. Or maybe an Eaton blower. So long as you could keep it together & less weight over the nose too for sharper handling. I believe there are some turbo versions kicking around in Europe. The JTS direct stratified injection might make things difficult in the engine control department though.

Oh, and if anyone needs some original JTS camshafts that still have all their lobes let me know. Only TS's in our stable now.

Cheers - Pat

[Craig_m67]

If it's turbos you want, the 1.9JTD manifold/turbo will bolt right on..
.. but then again, you could just bolt in the entire proven next gen 1750tbi solution Alfa (FPT) developed

And make it a facelift Sportwagon, the sedan is pants