Location of 3.2 JTS Crankshaft Position Sensor and pin-out/colour of wires.

[Ascari32]

Moving on from my JTS HP fuel pump, which proved not to be the problem, having the car checked at the garage garage, I have four P codes - 0365, 0390, 0016 and 0018.

Without going into more detail, it seems the only common factor is crankshaft position sensor. It is not chains or oil pressure. It would be extremely unusual, and unlucky for all four phasors to fail at the same time. That is not to say, it is not impossible. But it seems sensible to eliminate components which are common to all four individual fault codes.

Given the sensor is relatively cheap, I shall fit a new one rather than risk the spare from my original 159 engine.

The big question is, and I have Autodelta headers fitted: 1) How easy is it to get to, and 2) can someone point me in the direction of the wires of the sensor and their colour, so I can do I/R measurements?

Thanks - in advance.
 

[bazzbazz]

I agree, you'd be the unluckiest man on the planet to have issues with both banks of Camshaft Sensors to go on the blink.

Don't suppose you've replaced/worked on the timing chain recently?

Just that together all the codes you have listed are the usual indicators that the timing is out/chain needs replacing. P0016 is the usual indicator of a worn/stretched chain issue. (Before you say it, I know chains don't actually stretch, they wear)

(And YES, I am aware of your fanatical chain lubrication/maintenance regime.  )

I did some additional Googling and came across someone with strikingly similar errors, it may give some insight/ideas, have a read -

Camshaft error P0365 error - 3.2JTS

[Ascari32]

Thanks BazzBazz. Rebuilt engine still less than 20,000 miles with new full upgraded kit and chains are taught.

Trying to be cautious, however the engine is as sweet as a nut beyond 1500 - ish rpm. Haven't discounted VVT's which were stripped down and cleaned, but again can't see them all failing at the same time. Spoke with Autodelta about the possibility of the bottom timing chain skipping a tooth - can happen if the car is parked in gear on a hill or jacked up on the front - but one tooth amounts to quite a change in timing for both banks and the engine would be entirely gutless if that were the case. But not entirely sure because of increased valve duration with the C.B.'s. And the car has only been on full lift ramps. 

When the engine was rebuilt, and fitted, all the ancillaries were transferred over from my old engine which was running - just. The mechs were not familiar with the 3.2 JTS, so at least they were happy, knowing they worked.

However, and in this I am really clutching at straws, all those sensors were 112,000 miles on from new. The crank sensor is inductive - two pin and just wondering if the output level has dropped or maybe a wiring issue. So I will replace it just to eliminate it from the equation.

I inspected my spare block and can see where it fits, tucked up just behind the rear bank exhaust header. But it would be nice if I could find the pin - outs to the ECU so I could check it - 790 ohms is it's stated DC resistance. I am no longer agile enough to be crawling around under the car and would rather be a little more informed about the problem, before I book the garage again.

Business for garages is pretty frenetic given one needs to book weeks in advance for a slot.

However, it looks like my GTV is going to be pressed into service - just to get us mobile - although it will be a couple of weeks yet as have to fit the new exhaust system, the resprayed front bumper, do the belts and tensioners and then an M.O.T. Oh, and source a offside front fog/side light. 

Just to add a foot note, the clatter is now dreadful at tick - over, but it had been relatively low volume for quite a while; characteristic, until it reached its current level. Initially, I thought, of a classic Alloy engine. So - (ill)logically speaking, not the chains? as a failed tensioner or skipping a tooth on the bottom sprocket would result in immediate loss of power/performance?     

[Ascari32]

I agree, you'd be the unluckiest man on the planet to have issues with both banks of Camshaft Sensors to go on the blink.

Don't suppose you've replaced/worked on the timing chain recently?

Just that together all the codes you have listed are the usual indicators that the timing is out/chain needs replacing. P0016 is the usual indicator of a worn/stretched chain issue. (Before you say it, I know chains don't actually stretch, they wear)

(And YES, I am aware of your fanatical chain lubrication/maintenance regime.  )

I did some additional Googling and came across someone with strikingly similar errors, it may give some insight/ideas, have a read -

Camshaft error P0365 error - 3.2JTS

https://www.automobile-catalog.com/make/alfa_romeo/159/159_serie_1_sedan_q4/2009.html#google_vignette&gsc.tab=0

Bazzbazz, attached is your very own Australian review of the Q4 3.2 JTS. The Dynamometer plot I posted on this forum indicates the my engine produces just shy of 300Nm @ ~ 6900rpm.

The standard engine relies upon oil distribution for both lubrication and valve timing. The virtue of VVT is camshaft timing is adjusted according to engine revs and load. Something the Busso V6's do not benefit from. However, inadequate oil flow/pressure in the 3.2 JTS essentially reduces the torque characteristic to something akin to the Busso - because it cannot sustain the valve angles that the ECU has been designed to set.

The reputation of this engine is appalling, so why on earth would anyone want to buy a nine year old car given there is so little known about it? Even Alfa gave up and canned it early.

I have long held this is a lot better designed engine than it has ever been given credit for and rather than belly - ache about it, I chose to find out why it is so despised. The long and the short of it is, it is a very, very well designed engine, with failings that are a consequence of it remaining unfinished, when it was first released. The same engines in the SAAB and the Vauxhall are very highly regarded.

A design engineer is not "Fanatical" when he seeks to get the best from his design, is he? Or for that matter, someone who owns a car and wants to get the best from its performance.

I cannot abide the "That will do" mentality of modern engineers - probably because they aren't real engineers. My life has been spent "Finishing", unfinished designs. It is true, company accountants do place constraints upon development budgets. But in the case of Alfa Romeo, they are their own worst enemy. No other company I know of, feels the need to completely re-design every new model, in virtually every way imaginable. The 159 has one of the finest and most expensive platforms ever designed and they were virtually given it for nothing. Yet it has a very short history.

The techniques I used to supplement the oil flow capacity and thus oil pressure were; and are common, in both automotive and aeronautical circles. So I don't view it as "Fanatical" - unless of course, one is happy with Aero - engines failing in service as the 159 engine does! Good God, Alfa used to build Aircraft engines!!!!!! It they were anything like the way the 3.2 JTS performed on leaving the factory, they would never get an Air Worthiness Certificate.