105 for next years targa

[Colin Byrne]

Hi All
Setting up a 105 for targa next year, just finished off the cage, got the seats in and have finished cutting and patching all the dreaded rust, the car's going off to the panel beater on Monday . thought you might like to see some pics.
cheers
Col

[Krishnan Pasupathi]

Looks like a lot of hard work has gone into it. I wish you all the best for the rest of the project and for targa. Long live the 105.

Regards
Krish

[Colin Byrne]

Had a look at my car last night at the panel beater, Still a lot of work to do and time is running out but he says he'll get it done, and the work that he has done so far is good

[Evan Bottcher]

Great pics Colin - hope she comes together on time...!  Does he have a deadline?

I don't know much about Targa rules.  What motor are you going to run, how limited are modifications?  Saw you asking about factory-option adjustable arms - what suspension mods are you allowed if any? 

[Colin Byrne]

Deadline is early december!

Rules vary for targa, now run under the cams tarmac rally regulations.  I'm building the car to c2 spec, sort of in between standard and fully modified.  It allows a lot of engine mods,  All internals are free, same with gearbox and diff.  So the 2L has got the High comp pistons, crank and rods has been balanced, flywheel balanced and lightened, head has been ported.  Vin is putting in new inlet valves and getting some more serious cams and I've got the 45's and extractors to bolt on.  Block is done (finished last night) just waiting on the head from Vin.
Suspension is limited, all pickup points must remain standard (so stuck with the poor roll centre location)  bush material is free.  Suspension arms must be standard, hence the question about the camber arms, but shocks, springs and ARB's are free.  And the entire brake system is free, (Except for the use of carbon fibre, but I don't think that will be a problem)  So enough mods to keep it interesting!

[Scott Farquharson]

Looks great Colin - Good luck with it.  You know the car would more than likely be eligible for Group S as well - might be worth getting a red historic log book for the car!! 

Gives you the option of running some Historic events as well.  Would love to see it at Phillip Island or Sandown.

[alfagtv58]

I downloaded the new CAMS Tarmac Rally regs a little while ago and they seem to run almost parallel with the Group S regs, I am thinking of running a couple of rallys with mine when I recover from the cost of building it

[Scott Farquharson]

Another benefit of building a car to these regs - it means you have a whole other sphere of events open to you.

[Colin Byrne]

Don't you need roof lining and carpet for group s ?  Cos i wasn't planning on putting that back in.  Also are there any options for rim size or must it be satandard?

[a sharp]

Guys if you are looking at building cars for both tarmac rallies and group S make sure your ROPS (roll bars ) compile with both requirments. Tarmac rally ROPS require more protection around the crew as racing cars don't hit trees all that often. I am sure Scott can steer you in the right direction.

[Scott Farquharson]

Targa Tassie requires a FIA spec cage which is not neccessary for Grp S (you can currently run a half cage in grp s if you really want to)  Make sure, if the cage is in mild steel, it must be in CDS not CDW and must have bolts where the cage attaches to the body (funny FIA regs).  FIA means double diagonal in the main hoop, roof bars and side intrusion plus a couple of other things that require diagrams to explain.  I would recommend double side intrusion as this is the worst and likely type of impact.  I would also extend from the front of the side intrusion to the firewall behind the front wheel as well.

Wheels for group S must be standard size ie 14 x 6.  You could just have a set of these just for Grp S.  Don't need carpet but I am not sure about headlining - I am not running it unless I get told to.

Would be cool to see you at say the Phillip Island Classic as well as Targa.

[branko.gt]

Looks like a lot of hard work has gone into it. I wish you all the best for the rest of the project and for targa. Long live the 105.

Regards
Krish

and to think that this same shell almost got cut in half !

[Scott Farquharson]

Colin, just looking at your pics again, if you are doing Targa Tassie, as I said a couple of posts back, the cage must be FIA spec as Targa Tassie is an FIA event.  It doesn't matter for any other events just Targa Tassie.  What that means is "FIA means double diagonal in the main hoop, roof bars and side intrusion plus a couple of other things that require diagrams to explain."  Your bracing in the backstays (if that is all that is going in) is not sufficient.  The double diagonal must be in the main hoop.  Intrusion bars are ok and you must have roof bracing as per one of the FIA prescribed roof bracing designs.

Note steel cages must be bolted in.  This is an oft misunderstood part of the regs.  You can of course weld the whole thing together so it can't come out but atm it must attach to the body at the 6 main points (hoop, front legs and backstays) by bolts as per the FIA specs.

I would recommend double side intrusion as this is the worst and likely type of impact.  I would also extend from the front of the side intrusion to the firewall behind the front wheel as well.  Don't skimp on the cage as tarmac events are much more dangerous than circuit racing.(trees, cliffs, ditches etc)

[Colin Byrne]

here is an excert from the targa rules

302.4 Rollover protection

302.4.1 INTERNATIONAL VEHICLES Vehicles which are not resident in Australia, and which are subject to a Log Book issued by an ASN other than CAMS must have a Roll Over Protection Structure (ROPS) complying with Article 253 of Appendix J to the to the FIA International Sporting Code.

302.4.4 CAMS LOGBOOKS ISSUED POST 1 JANUARY 2000 Cars subject to log books issued after 1st January 2000 must be fitted with a Rollover Protection Structure (ROPS) in compliance with Schedule J with the minimum type as follows; • If a closed car – a full cage. • If an open car – a half cage, although a full roll cage is preferred. The ROPS shall be either: • Registered with CAMS and carry a valid ROPS registration label, or • Subject of a CAMS ROPS homologation.

So the way I read it is if you are an international competitor your correct scott, you do need a cage that conforms with the FIA Spec, however if you are not and the car is log booked by cams you only need a full cage that conforms to schedule J, which my cage does.  I did think about a double side intrusion bar but was worried about it causing access problems getting in and out.  While extra bars would improve the torsional rigidity of the chassis somewhat how much does an extra bar reduce deceleration in a crash thereby reducing injury?.  I don't believe I skimped on the cage I added an extra diagonal at the rear and spent a long time fitting the bars as close to the body as possible so that I could pin it together at various points.  I appreciate you comments it's a difficult one to know when to stop adding bars!  Scott what do you extend the front of the side intrusion bars to? I looked at adding these but couldn't find any point to pin it to and didn't want it to break away in an accident and spear me in the leg! And you'll defiantly see the car at the island in one form or another!

[Paul Byrne]

g'day folks,
Just thought I'd chuck my 2 bob's worth in.  Colin's comments line up with my experience in two Targas (one with Colin) in my 105. With a CAMS logbooked car you definitely only need to meet the manual's requirements and not the FIA spec. So welded in and no cross bracing of the main hoop or roof is ok. I agree that side intrusion is important and you certainly want max protection. Any full cage that meets the requirements for group S will be accepted for Targa.
By by the way Scott, I really appreciate your support for Group S in the club.  My car is logbooked for it but as yet I haven't taken the plunge and entered for any races. Happy to have the pressure put on me! In 'S' form the 105 is quite ok for Targa and we came in at about the middle of the classic field on handicap both times.We are both entered in Targa for 2007 and Colin is going closer to the limit of what Tarmac Rally Regs class C2 allow than an 'S' modified car can get. but I reckon it won't cover the skill gap (joke colin).
See you at PI in December
Paul B