Alfa 159 - advice/info requested

[Damien]

Hi Folks

I stumbled across this fine site researching reviews etc for the 159.

I'm in the market for a new vehicle and have never owned an Alfa before but have fallen in love with the 159 - took a 2.2 for a test run today - beautiful. Great value too considering the standard speci. Would love the 3.2 V6 but alas out of my price range and the diesel just doesn't do it for me.

I have the following questions however, if anyone would care to contribute.

I've heard numerous nasty stories re build and quaility problems in previous Alfa's - in particular the 156, ranging from trim/fixtures popping out right through to the vehicles being off the road more often than on, and extraordinary times taken to get parts etc to get them back on the road.

Also issues re overheating (not suited to our climate) etc etc.

I love the 159 and am 90% of the way towards getting one, but I need a reliable vehicle for business and simply can't afford to buy a lemon - regardless of how damn good it looks and drives.

Please this is not an affront to 156/other Alfa owners/lovers - just after some honest feedback which will be very much appreciated.

Many thanks

Damo

[Pete Y]

Hi Damien:

A lot of problems with the 156 in particular centred around the engine, the Twin Spark 4cyl. This was a fiat derived engine with an Alfa twin plug head and was actually quite an old design. Hence, it drank a bit of oil, and if owners neglected to check such things (something Alfisti would do but buyers in the 156 market wouldnt so much) then it could actually starve itself between service intervals. Part of the blame here lies at Alfa's feet for trying to stretch the service intervals to rival its competition, however after about 18mths the intervals were changed.

The Giugiaro freshened 2004 update brought the new JTS engine which is a damn sight more modern and has none of the same oil problems. In fact since the update a lot of problems in regards quality have improved - you'll even see it in the interior between the two - materials improved. The 159 obviously is a whole new step and I strongly doubt you'll have any such problems with loose trim, they appear very well put together.

One of the main complaints in Australia has also been dealer service and warranty claims which is unfortunate and has soured the ownership experience for many down under. There are quite a few outstanding complaints reagarding 147 drivelines. I think it is fair to say that the 159 is built like no Alfa before and more than likely will be as reliable as most modern cars. The likelihood of it needing a fix here and there is still going to be higher, and you should be aware that you arent going to get Toyota-like bulletproof reliability - but then the 159 looks and drives 50x better than any toyota.

My basic point is, 156 started off bad, and got a lot better over the model life, and 159 is a new kettle of fish and should be very, very good. To demonstrate, go to www.carsurvey.org and compare the number of faults in the 1998-2000 cars with the 2004-2005 cars and you get my drift.

PS. Please buy a 159, I dont want to see any more 3series on the road.

[Victor Lee]

Hi Damien,

From your email, I gather that you would also like some personal views as well as those found in car mags and such.

We are in a similar situation as my wife's 2002 159 JTS is due to be changed soon.  We have driven the 159 JTD but yet to drive 159 2.2 JTS.  My impressions are that 159 is miles ahead of 156.  The car just "feels" sooo much better than the 156.  Everything has got (dare I say) a BMW feel about it.  I don't say this lightly as I have had owned E36 328ci, E46 330ci and currently drive E60 545i. 

The 159 3.2 would also be my pick if the budget could stretch that far.....

Of our own experiences with the 156, let's say if I knew then what I know now, we would have NEVER bought a 156!  (Lotsa problems with the sensors and/or wiring for the JTS engine)  Yes, Alfas have a lack of reliability reputation but for all intent and purposes as with all car makers, the next models have learnt from the previous ones.  As the 159 is the second generation JTS type engines, the problems are (hopefully) sorted.

One big plus:  156 were cambelt driven, and the required cam-belt change was 3 years or 60,000 kms wihichever came first.  This cam-belt change cost 1500 big ones, and then the dealer reminded my wife as she was leaving that the next service would be a major one!  The 159 have gone back to chain driven so that expense is now minimised.

I have spoken to Ateco's General Manager David Stone on a few occassions (Ateco is the authorised importer of AR in Australia), but whilst you usually take what a car salesman says with a grain of salt, what David had to say made sense. For the price of the 159 on road, it one of the (if not the) cheapest European cars in Oz for the features standard in the car.

As the 159 is only just launched in Australia less than 2 months ago, there haven't been any "owners' stories" yet  (....unlike the 156 Selespeed launched in 1999, within a few months we heard about selespeed actuator problems)

I hope that after you buy your 159, you'll join the Club and partake in some of our activities!

Cheers

Victor

[Victor Lee]

Sorry guys, I don't think so! 

From Alfa Romeo Australia website:  "The new camshaft drive system features maintenance-free chain drive with automatic hydraulic tensioners, whilst the valves themselves are controlled by a low friction roller finger system with hydraulic uptake of tappet play."

[Fast Eddie]

I have owned 2 x 156 - a 2litre 156 selespeed and a 156 GTA 3.2 manual.  I have to say i have, touch wood, never had a major issue with either vehicle nor any warranty problems, parts supply problems.

Admittedly i am dissatisfied with the GTA paintwork (very thin) but the only issue i have had was with the selespeed (the up change button failed from over use but ATECO replaced the entire steering wheel without heistation) and the stereo console was replaced twice (bad batch).  Not exactly majpr problems.

Never any mechanical issues with either.  Finding a decent Service department and manager may well be part of the solution but if the 159 is better yet, then you should be well satisfied.

[Damien]

Wow guys this is great - just the type of objective info/views I'm after thanks - ok I'm 95% there but...

The rep says services are only required every 30,000 - this surprised me given the nature of the vehicle...
Likewise - I imagine the services are somewhat more expensive than the average Euro ?
Likewise parts....although I imagine the warranty would cover these for 3 years (I imagine) - what of the rumoured lack of/time to source them ?
Also any comments on the overheating issues - is this valid ? (ie: stuck on the freeway in gridlock for an hour in 40 degrees - is she going to be sitting pretty in the green of blowing off steam ?)

Any input much appreciated

Cheers

Damo

[Fast Eddie]

As for service intervals - well i do mine every 10k anyway as i reckon 20k or 30k intervals is mad. 

Service cost for my Alfa has always been cheap when compared to a Saab i had in a previous life example and i think, depending on who you go to and how they look after you, cost is reasonable.

Parts cost is "normal" to me but i have had little parts requirement of significance and next to noe not covered by warranty.

I drive my 156 GTA daily as i did my 156 Selespeed (albeit in Perth which probably doesnt count as traffic) and never had an overheating issue.  If you did, it would indicate a serious problem.  Mind you the radiator fan is operaitonal 99% of the itme which drives me mad noise wise when the car is at a stop but i can out up with it.

Depending on where you live and where you are buying from - all our 3 dealers are great and look after all customers, especialy members.  Some of us have our preferences of course.  I.e i will only go to one particular service manager who looks after me very well.

[Pete Y]

Likewise - I imagine the services are somewhat more expensive than the average Euro ?

My old man recently shelled out $4000 on one service for our E46 320ci - quite ridiculous if you ask me - 80000kms old and it gets treated very very well.

[Evan Bottcher]

I also service our 156 every 10k/6mths which I think is important with the older 156 twin spark engine as PY suggested they are sensitive to having good quality oil and regular changes.  I however don't have a lot of experience of modern european cars to compare prices - this is the newest and most expensive car I've ever owned! 

For service intervals and the overheating issue you can't really make a judgement based on people's experience with the 156 - the 159 is a completely new engine both the 2.2 and 3.2.  The 2.2 is based on a GM/Opel 2.2 I believe from the Opel Vectra, with Alfa JTS heads bolted on (anyone care to dispute this?).

Perhaps check out the forum at http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum - it's a mostly british forum and some of them must have put some decent mileage onto their 159s in the last few months so might give you an idea what falls off and goes twang...

[Gregory Briggs]

I bought one of the first 156 Selespeeds in Melbourne in 1999. I ran it as a work car and used it on the track for 2 years. I completed over 200 racing laps with the club and totalled 80,000 kilometres in it. It didn't use oil, started every day and the only part that was any problem was the Selespeed which was rebuilt and fixed by Lance Dixon. The finish was good and no trim fell off, the fit gaps were good and I didn't have any problems with the car.

Drive the car properly, service it well and you will have no problems. Take the car to Lance Dixon and you will have no dealer problems. Damon Earwaker looks afetr them like his own.

Greg Briggs

[Damien]

Brilliant stuff - thanks folks.....
Evan that UK site is a beaut - thanks.....Spent a few hours reading the 159 thread a couple of times - very informative.
In my humble view it seems apparent that die hard Alfista's (think that's the term) aren't too keen on the 159 as it's moving away from the true sports vehicle - to compete with the other Euro's - but as a relative newcomer to the brand I think it's a nice piece of work...definately my choice over the 3 series regardless of resale values. Beamers are becoming as common as the humble Commodore. I've only seen one 159 on the road.