One for the 90 "tragics"

[Jekyll and Hyde]

Oh yeah, in reply to another post with exemplary evidence, and I stand to be corrected here (which is why I put the "supposedly" in the original post because I always wondered about the quoted figures), but every stat sheet I've ever read has put the 90 at 1170kg and the GTV6 at 1210kg.

Makes sense to me - there is a LOT of steel on the inside of a GTV bodyshell, especially in the back end to stiffen around the windows/back of the roof pillars and hatch, which the 90 has a bit less of.  Likewise around the nose (in front of the radiator), GTV seems to have a fair bit more steel in under the panels.  I think the actual metal used on a 90s panels is also thinner than a GTV....  90 doesn't have that huge hatch on it, just a little bootlid....  90 has more doors, but they're smaller and lighter than a gtv, probably not much weight difference there....

[Alan Hopla]

Now I know you can't believe everything you read on the internet, but!

Carfolio.com lists;
1981 2.5 GTV6 at 1210Kg, and a 1984 3.0 GTV6 at 1138Kg
1985 90 2.5 V6 at 1170Kg, with weights for other models down to 1080Kg for a 1.8 and up to 1250Kg for the 2.4 diesel

Motor Magazine July 1987 list 90 Super at 1180Kg and GTV6 Grand Prix at 1184Kg.

Looks like at tie!

Alan.

[1750GT]

A newbie comment but a goodie comment JohnG. Use of the word crapola instead of the word crap actually shows a slight sign of some endearment but I am sure that John got it wrong, he meant crap.How can you go past the Alfetta or 90? if the "square" Alfa's ring ya bell.

For the sqaure mob (and I'm am one of the sympathisers) I think everyones forgotten about the lovely guilietta, 2lt donk in a light rear wheel drive car, a bit 90, a bit alfetta and a bit 75 and rare (probably for the wrong reasons but alas still rare). If anyone's got some more info on the pedigree of this beauty let me know, love to get some info.

But come on guys whilst I must admit I have a soft spot for the squares the 105 takes the beers, at the moment anyway and you know I don't care about the track and neither should anyone else because when your on the twisties there are a number of Alfa's that will flowt your boat, although I do remember doing some special stuff on the track with the 17fidy, but ah no I am not goig to start that one oh no I dont want to be controversial, even if my cars only weighs 900 kegs.

1750GT

[Sheldon McIntosh]

Makes sense to me - there is a LOT of steel on the inside of a GTV bodyshell, especially in the back end to stiffen around the windows/back of the roof pillars and hatch, which the 90 has a bit less of.  Likewise around the nose (in front of the radiator), GTV seems to have a fair bit more steel in under the panels.  I think the actual metal used on a 90s panels is also thinner than a GTV....  90 doesn't have that huge hatch on it, just a little bootlid....  90 has more doors, but they're smaller and lighter than a gtv, probably not much weight difference there....

All good points.  The panels on the 90 are extremely light, and are purely bolt on affairs.  I get the impression the panels of the GTV contribute to the strength of the car, but as usual I could be wrong.  And as you say, with the huge hole in the back of the GTV there needs to be a bit of strengthening back there too.  Probably equal amounts of glass in both cars, electric seats aren't as heavy as you'd imagine.  Maybe 10 years of progress is worth something?

Interesting that the 3.0 GTV6 is listed so light.  I assume that's the South African model, I thought the only difference was carbs instead of injection, but maybe there's more?  No sunroof maybe?

I'd be more than happy with a tie, it's easy to lose weight out of a 90, less so with a GTV6.  Not that it's a competition or anything....

I wish my car weighed 900kgs though 1750GT, that would make for a fun drive.  Maybe one day.  Robin's 90 must be close to that.

[JOHN G]

From six words I received those warm responses

I currently own a '87 ALFA 90 SUPER and have two ALFA 90 parts cars

Common mistakes when comparing weights are quoting Dry weight vs Kerb weight vs Shipping weight.

Quoting US specifications vs Australian specifications.

Power steering,cat converters,electric windows,clock,leather trim,sunroof,passenger side mirror,different wheels and tire combo's,fuel tank capacities.All weight adding combinations from different years.

Now I know you can't believe everything you read on the internet, but!

Carfolio.com lists;
1981 2.5 GTV6 at 1210Kg, and a 1984 3.0 GTV6 at 1138Kg
1985 90 2.5 V6 at 1170Kg, with weights for other models down to 1080Kg for a 1.8 and up to 1250Kg for the 2.4 diesel

Motor Magazine July 1987 list 90 Super at 1180Kg and GTV6 Grand Prix at 1184Kg.

Looks like at tie!

Alan.

From the above I can interpret my SA GTV6 3.0 is 32kg's lighter than a ALFA 90 SUPER.My GTV6 Grand Prix's are lighter by a margin of 22kg's( if you deduct the 26 litres of petrol being the difference in fuel capacities)


I am not here to intentionally upset anyone.Just here to share knowledge and  experiences with  ALFA Romeos.

John

[MD]

"I am not here to intentionally upset anyone.Just here to share knowledge and  experiences with  ALFA Romeos"


Exactly !!

What happens sometimes is that an opinion expressed is INTERPRITED as a direct afront to the PERSON and I guess that's when it unravels. The passion kicks in, the red mist comes down, reason goes out the window and the sheit fights start. Hopefully, I can steer around some of the skid marks.

I am very gradually getting know who's who in the zoo on this forum and enjoying the process. I hope to contribute a mixture of creativity,technicality, lunacy and more than 30 years of died in the wool Alfa driving passion.

On that note it's exit stage right....

[alfagtv58]

Aw c'mon guys, it was just getting interesting and a bit of fun......and you go and get all PC and start the "I didn't mean to upset anyone" crapola 

Transaxles rule!! (as long as they're in the front of a Sud!!!)

They usually are 

On that note it's exit stage left....

[Sheldon McIntosh]

Maybe we need some scales at the next dyno day to put this to bed once and for all. 

Aw c'mon guys, it was just getting interesting and a bit of fun......and you go and get all PC and start the "I didn't mean to upset anyone" crapola 

Exactly!!  No-one was getting offended were they, just a bit of light hearted discussion I thought.  Tis true though, sometimes it's hard to get someone's meaning just from text.  We need a sarcasm font. (copyright Arj Barker)

John, that is a seriously impressive garage you've got there.

[MD]

Sheldon,

I need some edumecation on the quick Victorian 90. Know nothing about it. Wanna drop me a link. Always happy to know why.

[Sheldon McIntosh]

It's running a 3.0 12v with about 190hp at the wheels, some pretty serious suspension, slicks, brakes off an RX7 from memory, caged, very light etc, etc.  Don't know much more than that.  Run by a chap who used to do Sports Sedans back in the 70s and 80s, in fact I believe he was National Champ one year.  He's pretty quick and tidy.

Hopefully this link will work, a video of Jim Neilsen's old Guilietta (which I believe is up your way now?) chasing the 90.  The 90 has had a few mods to it since this video was shot, it was still road legal back then (in spirit at least.  Okay, it had lights).

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3901444608467549907

Note "Taxi" sign on bonnet, for all you 90 haters..

[jimnielsen]

"Chasing the 90".... maybe you didn't watch the video long enough ?   - - It was a joy to see Robin spear off ! Man, that Giulietta was an incredible car to drive, and its always great to be out on the track with Doherty, especially at Winton. Hopefully I can get my car back together soon! One of the great joys of owning a 'sedan' type Alfa like a Giulietta or a 90 is beating GTV6's.. I used to keep a list.

[JOHN G]

John, that is a seriously impressive garage you've got there.
[/quote]


Thanks mate! Refreshing comment most people tell me
"If you sold those Alfa's you would have a nice deposit for an investment property"
Or
"If you sold those Alfa's you could buy a decent Ferrari "

I reply with the mature "JOG ON BLOOOOOP"

That 90 "TAXI" is the business,very nice!

jimnielsen nice driving.How many BHP at the wheels did your Giulietta have?

Is there any in car footage of the 90 "TAXI" anywhere?

John

[alfagtv58]

Is there any in car footage of the 90 "TAXI" anywhere?

I doubt it, there is nothing Robin (driver of the taxi) cannot do with a car......but I'm tipping he couldn't operate an in car camera even if his life depended on it!!

[MD]

Hey Hey !! The plot fickens ! Thanks for the edumecation. I am starting to put a few things together. It was interesting to see the original owner pedalling the Joolie. Nice one Jim. Didn't tweak cause now Joolie is wearing a red dress in the hands of Hammer who's showing it no mercy.

Pitty the "Flying Brick" (our Alfetta) was not in that race. Could have been an interesting outcome. I cannot say the Giulietta in its present form is the same car or not but in Queensland events we outbrake, out handle and outpace it. Braking and handling may be due to Hammer being the next Schumacher in training (sorry buddy) but the straight line speed is car alone.

Hate 90's Never. There is something to like about all Alfas. I just happen to love some more than others. Even though I own a 3.0L GTV6 (116), I prefer the transaxle sedans for handling due to their longer wheelbase making them less twitchy on the limit. Appearances and cabin ergonomics of course are seperate issue..

[dehne]

damn internet failed and ive missed out on the best topic yet i back you sheldon all the way ill take a 90 anyday of the week isrobins 90 ponchards old 90
getting back to matts post i would take it the colour is called champagne its what my racecar used to be before getting attacked but bumbble bees