Door aligment

Tim Jobson · April 11, 2009, 11:08:30 PM

Happy easter to all, I have got to the stage of fitting the outer sill after reinstalling the drivers door.

I needed to make up a spacer to get the door to align correctly, easy enough by cutting out a section out of gal rainwater down pipe.

As I was aligning the sill I was wondering what the recommended/usual gap there is between the bottom of the door and the top of the sill? Too much gap may cause problems with the door seals sealing correctly, too tight could also cause problems. What gap should there be between the door and top of the sill?

Thanks

Tim

1750GTV · April 12, 2009, 03:22:50 PM

Tim,
On my car, the gap between the bottom of the door and the top of the sill is 3mm. I've recently fitted new seals and the doors shut well though it did take some time for the seals to 'bed in'.
Hope this helps,
Chris

Tim Jobson · April 17, 2009, 01:08:27 PM

Thanks Chris,

Having real problems trying to get my doors to align properly, especially the passenger door.

The top of the 3/4 window is leaning inward too much, ie too close to the door seal so I will have to giggle with the angle of the door to get the window to sit better, the old seals had been crushed to death. I am hoping that the door will still be a good fit near the front and rear wings. ( has it is, the doors seem to have a slight bow in the middle that is not uncommon I believe with the 105s)

I have aleady had to make up spacers to get the doors to sit horizontal now that I have new hinge bushes fitted, did not think it would be so hard!

Tim

Gary Pearce · April 17, 2009, 02:28:46 PM

Hi Tim, it really is that hard. I have really spent hundreds of hours getting 105 coupe doors correctly aligned and I still needed to consult the experts. They all must have a curvature front to back thats a given. There is a degree of shimming required, but at the end of the day they still may require some dudicial bending and twisting to get a good fit. You don't want them fouling on the front guard when opening either. Also it is a problem if the body (sills) have been disturbed without first bracing and marking all gaps. This is a hopeless job if done after rust repairing and painting, unfortunately I have one example of this. Do it right NOW and you will always have a good looking car with doors that close correctly. You are welcome to check my two good examples if you are interested.
I can't speak highly enough of Leo at Extreme Body Repairs in Dandenong. 97938074. Do yourself a big favor and trailer it to him to do all the gaps prior to your welding and painting. You won't regret it. ( I must apologise if you are not in Melbourne)

1750GTV · April 17, 2009, 05:22:08 PM

Tim,
As you are finding out, this is no easy job. When my car was stripped and repainted last year I had the doors off (as well as everything else ...). I drilled and inspected the inner and outer compartments of the sills and as they were OK I spray filled them with rust inhibitor and resealed them. As I didn't remove the sills, the dynamics and structure of the chassis were not altered.
When I went to reinstall the doors, it took two of us a whole afternoon to get them aligned correctly and that was without the door seals. From memory the 'f' and 'c' words were used fairly liberally.
Though it is time consuming, like all jobs, it is worth doing well.
Good luck mate,
Chris

adriank · April 18, 2009, 02:33:07 PM

tim, good luck - i really mean that. This is a job i want to fix on my car but am paranoid i will just make it worse, in the workshop manual it says that it should only be done by your trusted alfa professional.

Would love to hear from people in the different states who they would trust to fix door alignment on their car. Or tried and tested methods they have used to sort it.

Adrian

Gary Pearce · April 18, 2009, 11:20:02 PM

Oh, in NSW Rob Panetta at Manning Motors.

Tim Jobson · April 19, 2009, 01:12:19 PM

Well I know what frustration is now, as I have finally got the door on the left side to fit the body work, This has only taken me two weekends!

In the end I have still got the problem of the quarter window leaning in too much, see the picture and see what I mean. It must of been like this for the PO has the seals were crushed in this area. No amount for door adjusting would allow me to have the door flush with the body and this quarter window more parallel with the body, I tried and It cannot be done without modifying the door.

I even measured the distances the window frame was relative to the door to see if there had been any damage or mods done in this area that could of changed the angle of the frame, but there is nothing but original fittings and paint so was it like this when new???

I have tried to move the base of the window frame and with some bending/modifying the frame attachment points I may be able to straighten up the Frame to some degree, a job for later on!

I have also sprayed the inner and middle sills with fish oil using a very cheap rig. Cut some retic dripper hose and pluged the end with a retic plug, then drilled a series of holes in the end. The other end fitted a retic dripper, removed the top and this was then placed on the pressure can with its spray button removed.

The dripper gave my fingers something to press down to activate the pressure can and it gave a good spray effect. This new fish oil is so much nicer than the stuff I used 15 years ago, that really did stink!

I am dreading removing the doors again to weld on the outer sills!

Cheers
Tim

Tim Jobson · April 19, 2009, 01:28:46 PM

Forgot These

1750GTV · April 19, 2009, 04:56:45 PM

Tim,
Before you give up completely, I've attached a schematic of the quarter window.
The bottom screw (105.02.60.014.00) has an adjustable collar which goes between the bottom of the quarter window upright and the door mount. On the other side goes the large washer, spring washer and nut (2145.16673, 15027 & 17022). When I had my car apart, I remember that this collar was pretty well immovable because the thread was gunked up with nearly 40 years of dirt and dust. With much WD40 I managed to free it and after cleaning, I replaced the collar on the thread at the same number of turns as it had been. The top of the threaded screw is slotted. It occurred to me at the time that this must be used as a mechanism for adjusting both the main window as well as the angle of the quarter window.
If your quarter window upright is straight, and it must be if the main window travels up and down OK, then you should be able to adjust the angle the quarter window makes with the door - there are plenty of other 105s around with the correct alignment - and this may be the way it is done.
The top screw (105.02.60.015.00) can be reached by removing the rubber 'weather seal' near the vent holes in the top of the door that were the subject of one of your other posts. Obviously it will need to be loosened in order to move the quarter window.
Keep at it, there must be a way and please let me know if I've given you a bum steer,
Chris

Tim Jobson · April 20, 2009, 02:10:16 PM

Thanks for the diagram Chris, it is exactly the set up in my car. That adjusting screw at the base of the window frame in the door, was one of first things I tried to adjust to get the window frame to line up correctly with the door frame.

Unfortunately it was set at it limit of its adjustment, the only adjustment available was to screw the adjusting screw and collar outward that would make the window frame lean even further towards the car, this is why I have been racking my brain over it for the past two weeks!

The Door is now nice and flush with the body and the brackets inside the door that support the bottom of the window frames are in original untouched condition?

my only option I can see is to some how bend or modify these brackets so that I can get the frame to lean outward enough to seal against the new door seals when I eventually purchase some!

Thanks again for your help.

Tim

1750GTV · April 20, 2009, 09:00:00 PM

Quote from: Tim Jobson on April 20, 2009, 02:10:16 PM
Unfortunately it was set at it limit of its adjustment, the only adjustment available was to screw the adjusting screw and collar outward that would make the window frame lean even further towards the car, this is why I have been racking my brain over it for the past two weeks!

Bugger ..... but then I sort of thought that you may have done all of this. Anyone who can repair sills, should be able to sort out a misfitting window frame

As you say, you may be able to do something with the brackets.
Either that or get another pair of 1/4 windows from a wrecker somewhere. I only have one pair and they are on my car, but I'll keep an eye out for you.
Chris