Restoring Simmons Wheels

[Duk]

RE: Simmons
re assemble of rims
   Every thing must be METICULOUSLY clean on the rim flanges - bolt threads and nuts. l use the Motortech Brake cleaner from Repco it's cheep but it work really well.  A small drop of Locktite if you like but it's not totally necessary if every thing is tight any way.
   Use a non acidic silicon on the rim flanges for a air tight seal, and let it set for 24hrs before fitting tyres
   Cheers Paul
   Sorry for coming across a bit pedantic but it's a big safety deal, just want to get it total wright. l wouldn't like to be on 3 and a half wheels in my Alfa any where or any one else for that.

Loktite is a very good idea. The actual thread contact between a male and female thread in a tightened bolt can be alarmingly low and Loktite fills these gaps and also prevent rust from forming. Loktite also lubricates the threads during assembly and helps to provide a truer torque reading.
It sounds like an advert, but it works 

[karlo]

Hi Karlo
If your wheels are that bad, then you need to get stuck into them with a strong detergent and a
http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Windows/Doors/Product-Information/Products/Abrasives/Hand-Pad/. l wouldn't spend money on mag wheel magic cleaning spray type bottles, they do work but when you have rusty stains on the allow, you need to really scrub that, and all the other crap off.
When scrubbed clean hit them with some Autoglem metal polish  (from AutoBarn) and they will look as good as new, and stay that way, It will take a bit, probably 30min per wheel, but well worth it.
http://www.autoglym.com/engb/product-proddetail.asp?v06VQ=GH&Range=1

Cheers Paul

Paul...

Thanks for the tip of with the Autoglem...took me 2 days...but i think i got there...(see pic  )

the glove tip came in handy but made the mistake of taken them off and now suffering the consequnces...
but its all worth it...

thanks again karlo

[karlo]

Hi Karlo
Great job buddy, hope to see your car up in real life some day. Have you seen the "Le Tour De North East" - ALPINE DRIVE...... That we are putting on? You are welcome to join in.
Cheers Paul

Thanks paul.....yehh well im hopeing to be @ the club meeting nxt Wednesday if youll be there?.....but u only may get to see me as i only just got the roadie on my alfa and there 10 days wait to see vic roads as they gotta check it out to as its been unregistered for 3 years..soo thats the only think holding it back which is a shame....

I just had a look "Le Tour De North East" - if its over the weekend i probably cant make it as i work most weekends....what are the dates?

Cheers Karlo

[Colin Edwards]

I had 3 of the M8 x 30 x 1.25 SHCS fail last weekend resulting in a flat tyre.  The screws sheared completely at the mating surface between the nut flange and the inner rim.  Seem to recall a metallic "ping" as one of the nuts struck the underneath of the car somewhere!
These are Class 12.9 screws and I understand are the original Simmons component - now 30 years old. 
Was there ever a recall or very early on a change in screw specification as these plated 12.9 screws are not ideal in this application.
Given the way the screws sheared nitrogen embrittlement is the likely culprit.
Anyone know the tensile strength of the 12 point bolts now used by Simmons or wheel repair centres installing screws in these and similar composite wheels?

[Colin Edwards]

Had 3 of the M8 x 30 x 1.25 SHCS fail on my V5's over the weekend.  Screws sheared completely through the thread root.  End result - loss of tyre pressure over-night! 
The screws are grade 12.9 and plated - not ideal in this application.  The screws appear to be a commercial product (Unbrako?) and would be around thirty years old if original.  Given the hardness of the screws and the plating, hydrogen embrittlement is the likely cause of failure.  No apparent sign of crack propagation over a long period.  These screws failed / sheared very rapidly!

Given the nature of the failure and likelihood the screws are unsuitable in this application, has anyone encountered similar failures?
The Simmons V5's were purchased new in 1988.  Did Simmons change the specification of these screws at some later stage?  Is this a known problem?
The flange on the nuts on the inside of the wheels are not serrated, not a nylock and have not been chemically thread locked.  Is this typical of late 80's Simmons wheels?
Anyone know the tensile strength of the 12 point M8 bolts now being used on these and similar composite wheels?

Any advice greatly appreciated.

Colin

[poohbah]

I read this thread today really just out of idle curiosity as I have 15x6 Simmons rims on my GTV. Which prompted me to glance down this arvo when I pulled in the drive and lo and behold, one of the bolts joining the dish to the rim is missing!

Can't honestly say when it may have gone walkabout, except I'm (maybe...) pretty sure I'd have noticed fairly quickly.

So the question is - any suggestions where can I buy replacement bolts and nuts for a Simmons wheel?

[bonno]

Hi Poohbah
Find attached link to Simmons website for parts. This site is located in Sydney, but I am sure if you can locate their state office in WA then shipping shouldn’t be too expensive. Note : Cronic customs in WA (refer to Authorised dealers tab).
http://www.simmonswheels.com.au/parts.php?type=nuts-bolts-valves

[poohbah]

Cheers Bonno, just what I was looking for.

[John A Pucak]

Tempe Tyres has all your Simmons needs.

[poohbah]

Did some more poking around, and in addition to the missing bolt, the nuts/ends on three others have snapped off. All other wheels are fine, so I assume the front wheel has suffered some sideways vibration - though can't say how long ago it would have happened. No loss of tyre pressure yet, which probably means its been very recent.

(BTW Thanks bonno - the guys at Cronic Customs reckon they can source correct bolts for me, just waiting to hear back on time/cost etc.)

Regarding Dehne's query re torque settings, I came across this thread (below) which suggests 45Nm is the correct setting for the bolts in question. But that's a lot higher than the 24Nm mentioned by someone else here - so further investigation is probably merited. Especially as over tightening has been mentioned as a common cause of failure.

www.ausrotary.com/viewtopic.php?t=200450

Coincidentally, my GTV is booked in for service tomorrow ...

[bonno]

Hi Poohbah
If you are unable to get the torque value for the bolt, try using the on Torque method on one of the other bolts (getting the bolt to just move). On the grounds of safety, Simmons must provide this value and suggest the Regulatory authority would not be too impressed by such a response.

[poohbah]

Cheers Bonno. Depending on what they say about the cost, it may be more sensible for me to just take the wheel to Cronic and get them to repair it given there are now four broken bolts, and potentially more on the way out.

[Colin Edwards]

Hi Poohbah,
Your bolt failures seem virtually identical to mine!  How old are the wheels?
I'd be interested to know if the screw heads have "12.9" stamped on them.  Screws look to be plated as well.  The plot thickens!

Peter at the Mag Wheel Centre (Melbourne) reccomends 30-35 Nm tightening torque for the new M8 flange bolts. 

[poohbah]

Cheers Colin, yeah seems pretty similar. The photo in that link I posted also looks much the same too. I'm not actually sure how old my wheels are, I'd guess at least 10-15 years as Simmons don't make the F15s any more apparently. Can't check heads at moment, dropped car in to workshop earlier cos it was booked in for servicing. Will have a look when I get it back.

[poohbah]

For those in a similar position.

Simmons is no longer owned by the original people and they no longer manufacture the older style rims or bolts (eg my F15s), nor can they supply the bolts for these rims anymore. (*I inquired direct with Simmons, and the reply came back from Tempe Tyres, so I assume that is who now manufactures rims under the Simmons brand. They just told me they couldn't supply them, which wasn't much help.)

But the helpful guys at Cronic Customs here chased things up for me, and they've been advised (by Simmons/Tempe) to just use equivalent HT bolts and nuts. So I'm going to take the wheel in and we'll identify what the best match would be.

Also - a tip for anyone with broken bolts or who is wanting to freshen their rims up by replacing some or all bolts. Only remove and replace one bolt at a time (in cross pattern) or the rim will lose its seal (as some have suffered). Apparently its very difficult if you pull them all off at once to ever regain a proper seal.